[Mage] Glyph of Eternal Water and the talent Enduring Winter:

[Scorage]

Actually, giving the talent Enduring Winter the same ability of "Perma-pet" is quite enough. Solution would be, increase the mana cost of freeze so the smart mage knows what time to use it, and the stupid one spams it running the pet oom in maybe what, on second Freeze?

Freeze is only OP on PvP aspect for shatter combos, which with new frozen core talent made easier to do, and also might cause some ice lance spam for the proc of it. (Good luck critting with 20% crit chance on a Resilience-cap target.)

Perma Pet won't be as imba as people make it out to be. It's still squishy, has a long cast time, and with unspammable Freeze, (also has its own 25 sec CD), it's not immense. Sure, its still not something you can turn your back on, but it's not "U haz to kill ze pet first" either.

Glyphs is a nice way for Frost PvE. Frostbolt Glyph needs to be fixed, the snare removal is not good for proc talents, besides, Frost has too many good PVP glyphs to begin with, not many will take 5% damage over the other glyphs.

Also, I will say this again. Make Brain Freeze proc effective for Frostfire bolt too, its a good DPS boost for PvE, (On a long fight) and not so bad Burst potential for PvP. (6% from Piercing Ice, 5% from Arctic Winds, 10% from Chilled to the Bone. With lower coeff than Fireball, Frostfire won't hit for too much, certainly lower than the almighty 6k crit of Frostbolt anyway.)

I'm on a break. Yes. But damn I miss being good ol' frostbolt spam bot in PvE I know I know its boring, but I'm bored out of watching Arcane and Fire fly towards the enemy, I can certainly try out the Frost version

[Jonisawsom]

Blizzard pretty much hates doing this - it's why the ice lance glyph isn't more buffed. Frost is already an insane levelling spec (in my opinion, and Blizzard's it seems) having quadruple or higher ice lances against high levels as well as extra water elemental damage - might as well go and level in all the really high level zones.

Personally, I like the mechanic as a way of separating PvE and PvP, but from what I've read, it's Blizz that don't.

Yes well I figured I didn't need to mention it, but since blizz is already changing the way the spell works, I don't see why this is an issue. While perma pet it can't cast freeze, So they already have it acting different in perma (pve)/normal (pvp), so adding something extra just makes sense.

My point was that the glyph and/or the talent can have more utility for the perma pet, but make it not useful to pvp. It doesn't have to change the way the pet/spell works, just increasing it's potential under controlled circumstances. Surely you understand why we can't just give it a straight damage increase, as then it does possibly become too useful/OP in pvp.

I know Blizz doesn't want spells to have two different effects for pve/pvp but this spell will now have two different effects. Let one effect be good for pve and let one be good for pvp, as they are already doing with the removal of freeze. Just give us something in return that's more useful in pve. Soloing and leveling, freeze was useful.

[Fireheart]

Doesn't the water elemental run out of mana kinda fast? I haven't played on my mage for a while but from what I remember it runs out of mana around the time it dissapears anyway.

[Jonisawsom]

As a perma pet it will benefit from all raid buffs, and can be buffed with AI, BoW etc before a fight. It should not have any real issues with mana.

[SolidGnome]

Glyph of Frostbolt, Ice Lance and Eternal Water (yeah yeah no molten armor)
Change the current pve spec by 3 points, enduring winter to frozen core (Ice lance crits make frostbolt cast faster). Pet will always be out with full raids buffs, which means its damage will increase and should have no mana problems, and blizz is trying to make everything, sp, crit, haste, hit and spellpen stack into the pet(everything but armor pen from what I can remember). I might be wrong with haste though.
FB Spam, FoF proc = FB, FB, IL (ghost charge) which ice lance should have over an 80% chance to crit, which will cause your next FB to cast faster. Fireball on procs when FoF isn't up.

Am I right or wrong?

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...e,IpN-Oe,10571 Something like that

[Milamber]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...e,IpN-Oe,10571 Something like that

Good Spec. Only 2 points in Frozen Core though because of GCD.

[Muffinator]

80% reduced mana cost for waterbolt, on main page. lulz

[Milamber]

80% reduced mana cost for waterbolt, on main page. lulz

If frost becomes viable we'll have 4 raiding specs, that's just cool.

[Shawaam]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...e,IpN-Oe,10571 Something like that

As you said, you need to sacrifice molten armor to buff your icelance. That means that you will nerf your mainspell somewhat hard to buff a spell which will to like 3-4% of your overalldamage anyway. Frozen core is a bad talent for PvE just for the reason of ice lance being so unpredictable. If you would use icelance in PvE, you would nerf your frostbolts. That's it pretty much.

The speccs I will test will be either:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...G,IJN-Oe,10571 Full frost, one point in Enduring Winter for Replenishment.


http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...0,IJN-Oe,10571 A bit deeper in arcane. From what I've heard Brain Freeze is a dps-loss compared to just spamming frostbolts. Or if I am wrong, please inform me.

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Someone suggested a procc from Frostbolt viable in PvE. I really like that idea. Like the procc gives ice lance temporarry castingtime but making it hit much harder during that procc.

Another bad idea of mine: What if enduring winter reduced the castingtime or something similair on the water elementals Water Bolt?

[Yizren]

Maybe people don't want it as a pet, but a long duration so that they can cast Freeze?

2 pts in pvp 10 more sec = 1 more freeze

only thing good for it, pve it is useless, frost, is useless

[Abandon]

Doesn't the water elemental run out of mana kinda fast? I haven't played on my mage for a while but from what I remember it runs out of mana around the time it dissapears anyway.

They reduced the mana cost of Waterbolt by 80% on the test realm, it should never run out of mana.

[Kelesti]

pve it is useless, frost, is useless

It's idiots like you that said the only place for a Discipline Priest was the arena. So shut up already.

[Raptorg]

I'm concerned about the Enduring Winter talent..

It definitely looks nice.. But with enough haste to reduce your talented frostbolt by 0.3sec, you're already at maximum haste for your GCD.

2sec talented/hasted, 1 sec with buff, I think you're already there with 0 haste and bloodlust/heroism.. Although I'm not sure, but it's likely..

It's probably be better if they just increased frostbolt's damage when Ice Lance crits instead of reducing its cast time..
Or just give it an ignite effect when Ice Lance crits, to prevent insane burst in lolpvp or something..(Clarification: Ice Lance crits, mage gains buff, frostbolt hits for 2000 damage, mob takes 1000 damage over 4 seconds.)

[Shawaam]

I'm concerned about the Enduring Winter talent..

It definitely looks nice.. But with enough haste to reduce your talented frostbolt by 0.3sec, you're already at maximum haste for your GCD.

2sec talented/hasted, 1 sec with buff, I think you're already there with 0 haste and bloodlust/heroism.. Although I'm not sure, but it's likely..

It's probably be better if they just increased frostbolt's damage when Ice Lance crits instead of reducing its cast time..
Or just give it an ignite effect when Ice Lance crits, to prevent insane burst in lolpvp or something..(Clarification: Ice Lance crits, mage gains buff, frostbolt hits for 2000 damage, mob takes 1000 damage over 4 seconds.)

The biggest problem isn't really the damage of Ice Lance, but rather, we can only use it when fingers of frost proccs. It needs to be more reliable. Maybe some way to get a rotation with it. Something like how arcane blasts work.

Another silly idea I have thought of: Invent a new spell. Frost Blast. It is on a short cooldown like 5+ seconds. And every time it hits it "freezes" your target (just leaving a debuff which itself does nothing) and when that debuff reaches two stacks, you can use Ice Lance to "shatter" the freeze (not a regular shatter if you didn't get that).

This is getting a bit off-topic, but meh.

[Roah]

not to compare classes, but id like to compare classes.

lock pets vs mage pet?

if freeze were left on the water elem the glyph would be way over powered. really i think they should find a little bit more taxing way of making the elem permanent, but with freeze available.

[Shawaam]

not to compare classes, but id like to compare classes.

lock pets vs mage pet?

if freeze were left on the water elem the glyph would be way over powered. really i think they should find a little bit more taxing way of making the elem permanent, but with freeze available.

I find frost to be balanced in PvP. Not many calling for buffs or nerfs. And if you are comparing warlock pets versus water elemental, well, don't forget to compare the casters too. Ah well, I will QQ a little. I really find the felhunter to be overpowered. More or less impossible to kill when you are encountering druid and warlock due to the felhunters HUGE amount of resistance.

[Raptorg]

The biggest problem isn't really the damage of Ice Lance, but rather, we can only use it when fingers of frost proccs. It needs to be more reliable. Maybe some way to get a rotation with it. Something like how arcane blasts work.

Another silly idea I have thought of: Invent a new spell. Frost Blast. It is on a short cooldown like 5+ seconds. And every time it hits it "freezes" your target (just leaving a debuff which itself does nothing) and when that debuff reaches two stacks, you can use Ice Lance to "shatter" the freeze (not a regular shatter if you didn't get that).

This is getting a bit off-topic, but meh.

You could just give it the Taste For Blood treatment.

Like a 100% chance to proc, but with an internal cooldown.

This topic is also about Enduring Winter, so there's nothing off-topic here.

[Shawaam]

You could just give it the Taste For Blood treatment.

Like a 100% chance to proc, but with an internal cooldown.

This topic is also about Enduring Winter, so there's nothing off-topic here.

Internal cooldowns feel so lame. Don't know really, but I don't really like them.

What kind of proc do you mean?

And well, we are talking very much about Ice Lance, which actually wasn't a part of this topic when I made this thread. :)

[Dark_Spirit]

Just give bigger - like 10-20 min - cd for the freeze, when glyphed.

And enduing winter should be improved water elemental again, which is boost your pet some way. That talent is useless right now.

[Raptorg]

Internal cooldowns feel so lame. Don't know really, but I don't really like them.

What kind of proc do you mean?

And well, we are talking very much about Ice Lance, which actually wasn't a part of this topic when I made this thread.

Nevermind that, I thought Enduring Winter was changed to reduce the frostbolt cast time. But it's Frozen Core..

I just have to stop replying to forums near the morning after staying up all night. Nothing to see here, move along. :