DK tank gemming?

[Hedstone]

For socket bonuses, I had a red gem in the 232 tanking gloves - given the +6 stamina socket bonus, would it be better to socket 9 dodge/15 stam, or just go 30 stam?

Effectively, it comes down to 9 dodge or 9 stam...or even 10 str/15 stam?

Thanks kindly.

[mhp]

Go str/sta or exp/sta or just pure stamina. Forget dodge gems.

[lordkasner]

just gem pure stam type gems cause that little bonus is not worth it

[dahawk]

i stack stam with some hit and dodge here and there but overall i go with stam cant have enough stamina lol

[Dapuh]

just 30 sta, except 1 exp(str)/sta for the meta gem.

a red socket with 12 sta bonus is nice to have, yellow sockets are not, expect you are not hit capped tho.

[Ygorl]

Ignore the people who tell you to ignore socket bonuses. ;D

Evaluate them on a case-by-case basis. Is 9 Stamina worth more than 10 Expertise for a tank? I'd be inclined to say no, generally, unless you're right at the edge of having enough hp to tank whatever it is you want to tank (if you're tanking bleeding-edge hard modes or you're trying to tank stuff two tiers above your gear, for example). If the socket bonus were +4 Parry or something and you needed to fill two yellow sockets to get it, you're looking at 4 Parry and 20 Hit vs. 30 Stamina. Probably the Stamina is better. Unless you aren't defense-capped, in which case you're looking at 4 Parry and 20 Defense vs. 30 Stamina, but if you go for the 4+20 you can free up 20 Defense somewhere else and replace it with 30 Stamina, in which case you're looking at 4 Parry and 20 Defense vs. 20 Defense. Obviously the first one is better. So just use your brain.

I am inclined to agree about not gemming for dodge/parry, though. Stamina is universally nice, Expertise increases your threat and decreases spikes of incoming damage, Defense gets you uncrittable, Hit increases your threat and makes sure that crucial taunts go off.

[Parietis]

For socket bonuses, I had a red gem in the 232 tanking gloves - given the +6 stamina socket bonus, would it be better to socket 9 dodge/15 stam, or just go 30 stam?

Effectively, it comes down to 9 dodge or 9 stam...or even 10 str/15 stam?

Thanks kindly.

Socket one red gem somewhere to meet your meta gem requirement. For that gem, probably Expertise/Stamina if you need it, or Strength/Stamina. Avoidance/Stamina is also an option.

Everything else should be +30 Stamina gems, unless you somehow found a piece with a +15 Stamina socket bonus. Don't meet a socket bonus "just because."

[Deleted]

I gonne join this discussion because I got a questions somewhat related to the OP: Could there be a correlation between the "DK tanks are so hard to heal/squishy" and the recommendation "Never gem for parry/dodge, plain stamina is the way to go!"?

I did gem for expertise, dodge, parry, not just for socket bonuses, but it generally makes sense for me. I have one of those brewfest trinkets, but I usually equip it only when facing caster-based bosses.

Here's my armory, comments are welcome: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...=Arygos&n=Yvil

[Nillo]

I gonne join this discussion because I got a questions somewhat related to the OP: Could there be a correlation between the "DK tanks are so hard to heal/squishy" and the recommendation "Never gem for parry/dodge, plain stamina is the way to go!"?

Tanks rarely gem for Avoidance, because most bosses hit hard and usually have some kind of anavoidable damage.
Dks even more so, because they have no block, which makes it impossible for them to get unhittable, you will always get hit, that's why it is better to have enough health to survive the hit than to go from a 50% to a 49% chance that the attack will hit you.

Here's my armory, comments are welcome: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...=Arygos&n=Yvil

32k hp might be enough for TotC 10 easy mode but it will certainly get you killed everywhere else.
Parrygems are terribad, because DKs already have a hugh amount of Parry, which makes DR kill your parry rating, so you're better off gemming for dodge (bad) or Expertise (very good until 26 expertise and still decent afterwards).
I remember some post on maintankadin stating that Expertise was worth ~0,7 dodge rating at reducing incoming hits and that was for a paladin with close to no melee attacks, if you also add in the threat you gain from Expertise it is certainly the best stat to go for after stamina.

[battysteveJ]

Tanks rarely gem for Avoidance, because most bosses hit hard and usually have some kind of anavoidable damage.

You sir are a fucking genius

[Deleted]

up until a point pure stamina is the way to go... however there is a point where starting to get some avoidence is useful.

When your running heroics the extra health from +30 stam gems is better however when you get further into raiding avoidence gets alot better.

Im currently sitting at 40k hp unbuffed, this is AFTER having dropped alot of +30 stam gems in favour of +dodge/+stam gems in red sockets and +def/+stam gems in yellow slots

Net loss of health = 400hp
Net gain or avoidence = 3%

while stacking avoidence on a 32k heroic tank is a bit retarded, when your running about with 40k unbuffed and 50k buffed, the extra dodge and parry is alot better than a couple of hundred health,

Also keep in mind that defense over the "cap" gives extra dodge, parry and also improves the damage reduction of icebound fortitude.

[Nillo]

Net loss of health = 400hp
Net gain or avoidence = 3%

At best you're sacrificing 6 stamina per 10 points of avoidance (+9 stamina per red/yellow slot) -> for 400 hp you get some ~60ish avoidance rating (dodge/parry/def) that's ~1% of avoidance after DRs kick in...

And no Avoidance doesn't give a shit unless you're tanking fast hitters (like Anub Arak adds, but DK sucks against them anyway).

[Deleted]

I have read about this trend (stamina is king) for so long now, but again, I fail to see the logic. Bosses have special attacks or unavoidable damage, true, but they have melee-swings, too. If I gemmed for pure stamina, I would lose quite some percentage of total avoided damage (I did a quick calculation and came to roughly 2.5% avoid for a mere 2k HP pool by just switching trinkets and replacing the socket in my hands).

So there it is again. The stamina-faction tanks bosses on the backs of their healers (hell, avoiding 2.5% more > 2k HP), while I think about avoidance stats - and it's not as if people say I'm hard to heal, in contrary. And because of their comments I came here to ask my question.

One note to Nillo: You seem to be a paladin tank and I understand that the tanking mechanics might be different to us Deathknights, e.g. the value of parry might be lower SINCE you can block and we don't. Furthermore (and as you don't play a DK, you might not know it), the HP value in the armory is not the HP value that we have unbuffed since of frost presence. But thank you for commenting on my HP pool and to point me towards the raids that I should be tanking :P

@xsynisterx: can I have your armory to have a quick glance at your equipment? 40k ub seems very high and I would like to see whats in there for me and the raids that I attend. Thanks!

And no Avoidance doesn't give a shit unless you're tanking fast hitters (like Anub Arak adds, but DK sucks against them anyway).

I'd love to know why it is bad to avoid blows from a boss that is not a fast hitter.

[Puremallace]

The obvious issue here is you need to delete the DK and role the real hero class imo.

[Deleted]

I was just waiting for someone to post something really useful, thank you so very much :P

[Deleted]

@xsynisterx: can I have your armory to have a quick glance at your equipment? 40k ub seems very high and I would like to see whats in there for me and the raids that I attend. Thanks!

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...us&n=R%C3%BAin

[Nillo]

1) I have read about this trend (stamina is king) for so long now, but again, I fail to see the logic. Bosses have special attacks or unavoidable damage, true, but they have melee-swings, too. If I gemmed for pure stamina, I would lose quite some percentage of total avoided damage (I did a quick calculation and came to roughly 2.5% avoid for a mere 2k HP pool by just switching trinkets and replacing the socket in my hands).

2) So there it is again. The stamina-faction tanks bosses on the backs of their healers (hell, avoiding 2.5% more > 2k HP), while I think about avoidance stats - and it's not as if people say I'm hard to heal, in contrary. And because of their comments I came here to ask my question.

3) One note to Nillo: You seem to be a paladin tank and I understand that the tanking mechanics might be different to us Deathknights, e.g. the value of parry might be lower SINCE you can block and we don't. Furthermore (and as you don't play a DK, you might not know it), the HP value in the armory is not the HP value that we have unbuffed since of frost presence. But thank you for commenting on my HP pool and to point me towards the raids that I should be tanking :P

4) I'd love to know why it is bad to avoid blows from a boss that is not a fast hitter.

1) Avoidance is not reliable and it won't save you against anavoidable attacks : Anub'Arak + Gormok + Icehowl have those kinds of attacks and they will kick your ass if your hp pool is too low. The attacks that will kill you are rarely those normal melee hits, but the unavoidable attacks.

2) The ones riding on the backs of the healers are the ones, that gem for avoidance , because the healers have to rely on your luck - if you can't survive more than 2 hits they need to topp you off immediately after you take a hit. And I'm no fan of pure stamina gemming either , but gemming for pure avoidance will get you killed for sure.

3) I do have a DK, that did more of the content, than you did. And you obviously don't know that parry has diminishing returns, that hurt a DK pretty hard, because you get parry from strength , dodge is always better and Expertise is the more desirable stat as it will decrease the chance of a damage spike against you. And 32k is even low if you factor in that small amount of hp you get from frost presence (some 1kish)

4) because it's UNRELIABLE against hard hitters and you WILL get hit by them no matter how high your avoidance is, against a fast hitter the chance of not avoiding a hit once in a while is greatly diminished, compared to a hard/slow hitter.

[Nillo]

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...us&n=R%C3%BAin

I'd really go for expertise instead of dodge in your case, as you are not even Expertise soft capped.

[Awful2]

@xsynisterx: can I have your armory to have a quick glance at your equipment? 40k ub seems very high and I would like to see whats in there for me and the raids that I attend. Thanks!

I'm sitting at 40,712 HP now. Check my Armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...jal&n=Tortoise

PM me if you have any questions or need advice.

[Mortanix]

Also on over 40k unbuffed, and i personally gem 30 stam in blues, hit/stam in yellows and expertise/stam in reds.