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  1. #21

    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    I have had this same thing happen as a druid.

    A shammy in a 25 man TOC was going on and on about his 4k healing how he was SO great. So after anub I post the healing meters to him(just him) just to tease him because I severely out healed him. And he goes on and on about how druids are hot healers and always heal more (druids main heal isn't a hot anymore, its a combination of hot with nourish and nourish being the top spell) So I show him that on the spell chart. Then he starts off on how all my heals were wasted because I was at like 46% overheal and he was a lot lower.

    I try to explain how druids are now with wildgrowth being a random selection that heals for 25k overall, how dots tick even when they are at full health now (on the combat log) and inso skew the meters.

    All this while I never got below half mana and he was asking for innervates.

    People are just stupid is how I take it. They don't know how other classes work.

    Priests will almost always have low overheal because their mending is a reactive heal.

  2. #22

    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by acidragoon
    Overhealing is only bad if you go oom

    Or if someone dies and its the healer's fault
    good words.
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    If its too hard people will complain, if its too easy people will complain, hard core raiders will complain is theres a gate system, but then they will also complain if theres an open system, casual people will complain 5 mans are too hard, raiders will complain 5 mans are too easy, everyone will complain about 5 mans in general, hard core pvps will complain about arena balance, casual pvps will complain about BG balance, overall pvps will complain about balance in general.

  3. #23

    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    Either way the OP is pulling out his epeen and stroking it infront of all the other healers. He trying to prove how good he is and how much better he is then they are. Hes a wanker he shouldn't be raiding until he starts trying to work together with a team of healers to get thru an encounter rather then him trying to be better then everyone and gloat about how great his epeen is.

  4. #24

    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    Regardless you are at fault for flashing meters.....
    NOONE CARES.

  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire andraxion's Avatar
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    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    Overhealing is just a tool to see multiple things.
    - Which healers spam their heals
    - Who is lagging
    - Who has more uptime on heals (Mainly druids now since the change to overhealing)
    - Who has more mana

    Now I'm going to break those down to you. Most of the time people associate overhealing with healers who don't know how to heal (ie., spamming huge heals when a lesser would work better, going crazy with the raid healing, stacking HoTs on tanks/high damage-in targets, etc). As you can see, technically only one of those is absolutely wrong (raid overheals).

    Now comes the lagging issue, a lot of times people are lagging, therefore they see players' health still at a lower amount than other healers. This causes confusion because all that person is trying to do is top off people, only fix for this is better internet.

    Since the latest patch (I do believe), druids' HoTs tick for overhealing whereas before they didn't. So say if a druid is stacking HoTs on the tanks or a holy pally is spamming FoL and they either aren't ticking/hitting right as the target takes damage, then they will just be thrown to overheal. It's not bad, and in most situations unavoidable.

    Now is the mana part. If you are in full ToC 25 gear and go run a naxx 25, you can press every heal you have in succession and most likely still have a good bit of mana left over. If you have the mana pool that can sustain constant healing, there's no reason you shouldn't do it on trivial content. It helps out overall, as it reduces the chances of something going wrong and someone dying.
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  6. #26

    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    Overhealing for the most part is not 'gear' or 'skill' dependant. Its mainly reaction time. If most of your heals are hitting the overhealing meter, you're either reacting too slow, or you have too much lag. Or someone else is on a fast computer.

    I overhealed a crapton for awhile. I've changed that by clicking BEFORE the heal is needed on target that is going to be taking damage, given the boss/role. If its a boss that does alot of magic/ranged damage, you cast your heals on a ranged that is in path of whatever is being cast. I.E. Grand Widow's rain of fire. If you see someone over there at full health, cast a heal on them and pray that they take the damage before the cast goes off, or be quick on the escape button/move before the cast finishes.

    If its a boss that does heavy meele damage with cleaves, like adds on Anub'rekan, cast a bunch of little heals on the meele/tank tanking the adds.

    Its really about timing and finding out when damage is coming in. But, all in all:

    Healing is supportave, not competative. Don't let someone say you're not doing your job. its better to have low heals and high over heals than low heals and low overheals.

  7. #27

    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by volrathy
    Either way the OP is pulling out his epeen and stroking it infront of all the other healers. He trying to prove how good he is and how much better he is then they are. Hes a wanker he shouldn't be raiding until he starts trying to work together with a team of healers to get thru an encounter rather then him trying to be better then everyone and gloat about how great his epeen is.
    Yeah seeing as how the RL Priest was telling him he couldn't heal the fight in his gear, it wasn't really epeen strokage, more like validation. If someone tells me i don't have the gear to do something and i end up doing it better than he/she did I am pretty sure i would flash meters to show them that i was in fact geared enough and that they were just trying to be elitist asshats.

  8. #28
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    I've had fights with 18% OH, and I've had fights with over 60% OH. Both were encounters where the boss died and my assignments lived. Both instances, nobody told me "Your OH is too high".

    It is something to work on if you can do it, but it is not such a major problem that it should be your biggest focus. The same with people who judge healers by HPS. If it's too low, but everyone lives, then it's not a serious issue and there may be circumstances as to the cause (i.e. your MT healer is disc). If it's too low, and people are dying, then it is a serious issue and should probably be considered for discussion.

    It is nice to not have OH over 50% if it can be helped, but it is not so big of a deal if it is and your designated healing targets are surviving encounters.

  9. #29

    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Parameter
    Yeah seeing as how the RL Priest was telling him he couldn't heal the fight in his gear, it wasn't really epeen strokage, more like validation. If someone tells me i don't have the gear to do something and i end up doing it better than he/she did I am pretty sure i would flash meters to show them that i was in fact geared enough and that they were just trying to be elitist asshats.
    Yet the OP continued with his "elitist asshat" posting of meters thru multiple different raids not just the original raid.

  10. #30

    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by volrathy
    Yet the OP continued with his "elitist asshat" posting of meters thru multiple different raids not just the original raid.
    People need to stop labeling everything and their mother 'elitist,' simply because they're butt-hurt by the fact they were outplayed by someone else.

  11. #31

    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crushridged
    I have had this same thing happen as a druid.

    A shammy in a 25 man TOC was going on and on about his 4k healing how he was SO great. So after anub I post the healing meters to him(just him) just to tease him because I severely out healed him. And he goes on and on about how druids are hot healers and always heal more (druids main heal isn't a hot anymore, its a combination of hot with nourish and nourish being the top spell) So I show him that on the spell chart. Then he starts off on how all my heals were wasted because I was at like 46% overheal and he was a lot lower.

    I try to explain how druids are now with wildgrowth being a random selection that heals for 25k overall, how dots tick even when they are at full health now (on the combat log) and inso skew the meters.

    All this while I never got below half mana and he was asking for innervates.

    People are just stupid is how I take it. They don't know how other classes work.

    Priests will almost always have low overheal because their mending is a reactive heal.
    tbqfh if nourish is your top healing spell then you need to l2p resto druid. Rejuv is top by far and if it isnt, your doing something wrong *assuming were talking about raid healing here.

  12. #32
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    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    My personal opinion is if people are all alive at the end of the fight then who cares what the numbers says, especially in pugs.

    However, just because Paladin healers are more prone to overheal doesn't always mean you can't try harder to not overheal. Overhealing isn't a good thing. It is a bad thing in that you are in fact wasting a portion of the heal, but not nearly as bad as a dead party member so we usually choose overheal for safety sake. But in the end it all comes down to whether or not you successfully beat the encounter or not. You may have to work on better planning your heals if you are running oom. Just because you have a shit ton of mana doesn't mean you have to blow through it all just so you can lead the meters.

    My personal suggestion for the OP is to focus less on the meters and working with the other healers to reduce the amount of overlapping heals and cut down on overhealing.

  13. #33
    Stood in the Fire andraxion's Avatar
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    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by malkatron
    tbqfh if nourish is your top healing spell then you need to l2p resto druid. Rejuv is top by far and if it isnt, your doing something wrong *assuming were talking about raid healing here.
    To be honest, most fights, Nourish is the best heal. Raid is going to take damage, so you throw rejuv's up... now what? The AoE happens, you top off the raid then spam nourish on the tanks. With the speed of Nourish, it's almost easier to use it over any other heal to top the raid once you have your rejuv's/WG in place.
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  14. #34

    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    Overhealing isn't too important if you arn't running out of mana...but that dosen't mean it is a worthless stat. Other people pointed out why it is worth less for a holy pally though.

    But also, by the sounds of it you (OP) are being a bit of a jerk with your '/flex OMG GUYS LOOK I TOPPED THE METERS I'M THE BEST HEALER' attitude. All of the healing meters mean less than meters for the other raid roles.

    If you expect people to stop hassling you about overhealing maybe you should be less of a jerk about total healing. Different types of healers do different on different healing meters even if they are all being equally helpful. This dosen't mean that the meters can't sometimes point out when you are being better - but it does mean they don't always do and you should shut up about the meters.

    The other healers you come accross are probally just saying those things because you started it by bragging about how you are the best healer in the raid.

  15. #35

    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    Overhealing is almost completely irrelevant in Wrath. With as many multi-target heals, group heals, smart heals, and raidwide unconditional trickle heals (think healing stream totem and judgement of light) that we have now, overhealing tells you jack about how good a healer is. Especially post-3.2 and the beacon change.

    On my holy paladin, I'm always healing 2 targets at once. Always. Very rarely and only under special circumstances do I allow beacon to expire. Since I can't move beacon around at will with wasting a GCD + a ton of mana, then at least one of those targets may not need the heal when it hits.

    The reverse is true, too. If I'm casting a heal on a DPS and get sniped by circle of healing, I'm probably going to let the cast finish anyway. In BC I would have canceled it to save mana, but in Wrath I know it's going to fall through to the tank anyway, who's getting beaten senseless. I'm also more likely to cast bigger heals than I need (say, holy light on a DPS down 4k health), because my beacon target is down more than that, or I expect them to be by the time the heal finishes casting.

    Healing meters in general are a poor way to evaluate a healer's performance. If they keep their assignments alive, and they manage their mana well, they're doing their job. The only real use of meters is to see what spells somebody is using the most, who they're focusing on, and if they're staying active and keeping up with the incoming damage. Even some of that is iffy with all the group / dual target heals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crushridged
    I try to explain how druids are now with wildgrowth being a random selection that heals for 25k overall, how dots tick even when they are at full health now (on the combat log) and inso skew the meters.
    That change doesn't skew the meters, it corrects the meters. Before, druids showed extremely low overhealing on meters, because most of their heals were HoTs which didn't tick when someone was at full health.

    If you think about it though, you cast that HoT, you spent the mana to do X amount of healing. If they reach full health before it heals for the full amount, then anything left that is mana that you wasted. Hence, overhealing.

    Now, the meters correctly show druid overhealing. However druids don't really have a lot of control over it due to the nature of HoTs, which is why it's useless to look at.

  16. #36

    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by wakerofgods
    But also, by the sounds of it you (OP) are being a bit of a jerk with your '/flex OMG GUYS LOOK I TOPPED THE METERS I'M THE BEST HEALER' attitude. All of the healing meters mean less than meters for the other raid roles.
    Ok, sorry for the double post, but the only thing I hate more than people who do that are people who look at HPS on the meters. That's the only stat that's more worthless than overhealing. Effective healing per second is meaningless because you can't heal unless somebody takes damage!

    And before all the trolls say I only believe that because I suck... I usually top the meters or am very close (disc priest or resto druids sometimes beat me depending on the boss fight, and the occasional shammy on chain friendly fights). Which of course means nothing because meters don't tell the whole story.

    EDIT: To the OP, you're right that overhealing is meaningless unless you ran out of mana. You're wrong for having linked healing done to raid chat, and also for thinking you were a better healer than the priest.

  17. #37

    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    I would say that Overhealing matters in one way, if u did like 75% of ur healing as Overhealing, and went oom half fight (Is there even a healer that's decent that can do this atm?) then that person is doing it wrong.

    If u got some mana to do it, why not?

  18. #38

    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    Overhealing means you're doing your job as a paladin.

    The fact you have beacon, holy light glyph and making sure you keep the holy light cast time down that all adds overhealing is completely irrelevant.

    Tanks go from full to low all the time in hard modes, if you're not spamming holy light on them for all you're worth you're not doing your job. Mana shouldn't be an issue. The extra few milliseconds it takes for you to react over my constant chain spamming could be the difference in life and death.

  19. #39

    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naft
    If u got some mana to do it, why not?
    The other way of looking at it (at least from a tank healer's perspective, it's different on raid): If you finish a fight and have a lot of mana left, you weren't doing as much as you could have.

  20. #40

    Re: What up with all the Overhealing hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baever
    People need to stop labeling everything and their mother 'elitist,' simply because they're butt-hurt by the fact they were outplayed by someone else.
    your comment makes no sense

    Outplayed? Outhealed is not outplayed. having a class which lives on spamming a heal on a single target is not outplaying the guy who spams lots of heals on many targets - or vice versa.

    Stop looking at meters and making dumb conclusions. Stop trying to prove how cool you are by comparing your apples (pally healer) to my oranges (druid healer)


    Any healer that spams healing meters in my raids gets booted - no ifs no buts no maybes. Its a rule up front and there to prove one thing: boss dies = sucess. Tank dies = fail.

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