It’s time to bring an end to the ‘hybrids should do less dps’ myth

[talrob]

To keep intros short, I’m a shadow priest,

A long long time ago back in TBC I joined raids and everyone wanted me because I gave them basically infinite mana in a mana dry time. They didn’t care that I did basically half the dps of the hunters, this is one of the biggest examples of utility that has existed in wow. We traded dps and instead allowed others to dps or heal harder.

That was then, this is now. In current times even rogues, the class notorious for providing no raid buffs bring them to the table, most classes now bring utility, what is special about hybrids in this aspect anymore? Very little.

I know I can hear you saying ‘but you can heal/tank!’ and true yes we can but let’s look at the typical range of a 25 man raid,

1-3 tanks
5-8 healers
Rest dps

This means on any one fight there can be a variance of 2 tanks and 3 healers, none of the other 5 healers ever dps, this effectively makes them ‘pure’ healers. Now all tanks are hybrids so that doesn’t matter. One person cannot both heal and dps on a single fight with one spec. Effectively you are telling me that because all of 3 people, from 6 possible specs (shadow, feral, boomkin, ret, enhance, elemental) switch between specs on fights every hybrid ‘deserves’ to do lower dps.

So...hybrids bring no more utlity than ‘pure’ classes, their strength of dual purpose, takes up very little of a 25 man raid (12%). Tell me again...why do we have this damage tax? It’s time to move on from this burning crusade myth and realise that everyone should do the same dps because they all provide something to the raid and it sure well isn't the ability to switch role.

[notasgudasyou]

To keep intros short, I’m a shadow priest,

A long long time ago back in TBC I joined raids and everyone wanted me because I gave them basically infinite mana in a mana dry time. They didn’t care that I did basically half the dps of the hunters, this is one of the biggest examples of utility that has existed in wow. We traded dps and instead allowed others to dps or heal harder.

That was then, this is now. In current times even rogues, the class notorious for providing no raid buffs bring them to the table, most classes now bring utility, what is special about hybrids in this aspect anymore? Very little.

I know I can hear you saying ‘but you can heal/tank!’ and true yes we can but let’s look at the typical range of a 25 man raid,

1-3 tanks
5-8 healers
Rest dps

This means on any one fight there can be a variance of 2 tanks and 3 healers, none of the other 5 healers ever dps, this effectively makes them ‘pure’ healers. Now all tanks are hybrids so that doesn’t matter. One person cannot both heal and dps on a single fight with one spec. Effectively you are telling me that because all of 3 people, from 6 possible specs (shadow, feral, boomkin, ret, enhance, elemental) switch between specs on fights every hybrid ‘deserves’ to do lower dps.

So...hybrids bring no more utlity than ‘pure’ classes, their strength of dual purpose, takes up very little of a 25 man raid (12%). Tell me again...why do we have this damage tax? It’s time to move on from this burning crusade myth and realise that everyone should do the same dps because they all provide something to the raid and it sure well isn't the ability to switch role.

what? seriously QQ more, im boomkin by trade and if one of our healers go down i can HoT their target, brez the healer in question, and get back to dpsing in very little time... QQ more...

[talrob]

How is this a myth? Hybrids should do less DPS, blizzard agrees in most cases, end of discussion.

Why? Please give me one reason why we should..

[Scorage]

If they remove the tax:

I'll dump my mage and warlock, and go to my Elemental Shaman, have it a Enhancement Dual Spec, and enjoy melee, and ranged DPS whenever I feel like, without the stress of performing below my potential.

That is the reason why the tax is currently there. Is there a way to work around it? Ofcourse, we'll have to wait and see.

[talrob]

I asked you a questions first, how is this a myth? Do you know what a myth is?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/myth

I'm a fan of 3,4 and 5...

[Faladrath]

This means on any one fight there can be a variance of 2 tanks and 3 healers, none of the other 5 healers ever dps, this effectively makes them ‘pure’ healers. Now all tanks are hybrids so that doesn’t matter. One person cannot both heal and dps on a single fight with one spec. Effectively you are telling me that because all of 3 people, from 6 possible specs (shadow, feral, boomkin, ret, enhance, elemental) switch between specs on fights every hybrid ‘deserves’ to do lower dps.

So your contradicting you're self. You're trying to say no1 is a hyrbid anymore cause of lack of unique utility and that they can't do 2 things at the same time yet you just said tanks are hybrids....how exactly do they dps/heal while tanking.......

The point behind hybrid is something you can twist and turn as much as you want. you are a class capable of healing/dps/tank(druid/pala). Blizzard never said you had to be able to do it at the same time or bring great utility, just that u can fill all 3 roles.

If your so hellbendt on not paying the tax then well roll a pure dps not a hyrbid.

[swampsquatch]

Why? Please give me one reason why we should..

Blizzard said so, that is why. Seriously though, I am tired of reading QQ from hybrids because they do less dps. If the 4 (or 5 if you are a beast) numbers in the dps tab of recount are what determines why you are playing that character then re-roll a rogue.

/thread

[talrob]

If they remove the tax:

I'll dump my mage and warlock, and go to my Elemental Shaman, have it a Enhancement Dual Spec, and enjoy melee, and ranged DPS whenever I feel like, without the stress of performing below my potential.

That is the reason why the tax is currently there. Is there a way to work around it? Ofcourse, we'll have to wait and see.

How is that in any way different from switching between say Destruction and Demonology? Ok in your example one is ranged and one is melee but that's just two totally different play styles in the same way nuker or pet manager are.

[notasgudasyou]

seriously, if you're talking about hybrids that can perform 2 roles during 1 fight really the only real option is reroll feral druid...

Kgo tanking and still pushing comparable dps numbers in 1 spec...

[talrob]

So your contradicting you're self. You're trying to say no1 is a hyrbid anymore cause of lack of unique utility and that they can't do 2 things at the same time yet you just said tanks are hybrids....how exactly do they dps/heal while tanking.......

The point behind hybrid is something you can twist and turn as much as you want. you are a class capable of healing/dps/tank(druid/pala). Blizzard never said you had to be able to do it at the same time or bring great utility, just that u can fill all 3 roles.

If your so hellbendt on not paying the tax then well roll a pure dps not a hyrbid.

Yes ok so technically its 5 out of 25 people that switch then sorry but thats still only 20% of the raid.

[Nømeansnø]

Our philosophy at this point in the game was that hybrid classes needed to give up a lot of their power, especially on the dps-side of things, in order to justify their versatility and massive buffs.

This is Blizzard pretty much telling you how wrong you are.

[Vulcanreborn]

seriously, if you're talking about hybrids that can perform 2 roles during 1 fight really the only real option is reroll feral druid...

Kgo tanking and still pushing comparable dps numbers in 1 spec...

^^^ btw davy...l2eclipse proc kgo
oh and hybrids I play a hunter (lol) and yeah blizz is right hybrids get the best of both sometimes 3 worlds, while I admit being able to keep up with the pures would be fun n all if hybrids did great dps whats the use of bringing most other classes?
<3 Vulcan

[Kuismar]

thats why i role a toon for a specific reason. if i want to dps and do the most dps possible i have a true dps toon. if i want to heal i have a healing only toon, forget about they other hybrid specs, same goes for tanking. i understand you like your priest, paly, druid more than another class that can preform the same role. but that is the price you pay, choose to play what you like and do less dps, or roll an alt that does more.

[Xuany]

Hybrids still do decent DPS, its like not OMFG Hybrids should never dps, but you have to look at this from a pure dps class point of view, you really want a Hybrid to out dps you while at the same time he can tank or heal? I think not good sir. And I play 3 Hybrid classes and personally Idc that hybrids do less dps, I like the fact I can fill another roll other than dps, lets face it there are more dps than healers/tanks on every server. :P

[talrob]

This is Blizzard pretty much telling you how wrong you are.

What massive buffs? Apart from heroism and battle rez there aren't any...What 'MASSIVE' buffs do I bring as a priest? stamina? please...

What versatility? You try throwing on a shield in full dps gear and tell me how long you survive against anub'arak, or try healing any more than a few seconds on most fights (in my case divine hymn) and tell me how it goes, basically in both cases you last a cooldown.

So what if we can tank and dps? we can't do it at the same time, in the same gear (well ferals maybe but they are just OP ). It just appears to me to be Blizz keeping the 'pure' community happy.

[Kuismar]

What massive buffs? Apart from heroism and battle rez there aren't any...What 'MASSIVE' buffs do I bring as a priest? stamina? please...

What versatility? You try throwing on a shield in full dps gear and tell me how long you survive against anub'arak, or try healing any more than a few seconds on most fights (in my case divine hymn) and tell me how it goes, basically in both cases you last a cooldown.

So what if we can tank and dps? we can't do it at the same time, in the same gear (well ferals maybe but they are just OP ). It just appears to me to be Blizz keeping the 'pure' community happy.

i think the point was brought up before, if a hybrid can do the same dps as a pure, then why bring a pure. ie: you are having trouble on a fight you can have a hybrid change to another spec, heal/tank, while a pure can't do anything but spec into another dps or more survival etc. therefore the best raid would be one of all hybrids that at a moments notice can chance specs to heal/tank when times are tough but go back to dps just as well as a pure.

[talrob]

i think the point was brought up before, if a hybrid can do the same dps as a pure, then why bring a pure. ie: you are having trouble on a fight you can have a hybrid change to another spec, heal/tank, while a pure can't do anything but spec into another dps or more survival etc. therefore the best raid would be one of all hybrids that at a moments notice can chance specs to heal/tank when times are tough but go back to dps just as well as a pure.

...and as I said in the first post, this is at most 5 people in the raid who do this, O novos.

Effectively I could instead say, why take any more than 10 hybrids to a raid when 15 pures will do more damage?

[Jexar]

If that were the case, then who in their right mind would roll any other class besides a druid? Druids would be capable of amazing healing, tanking, melee dpsing, and ranged dpsing, thus getting rid of any diversity (of what is left anyway).

[Vulcanreborn]

...and as I said in the first post, this is at most 5 people in the raid who do this, O novos.

Effectively I could instead say, why take any more than 10 hybrids to a raid when 15 pures will do more damage?

because you end up taking about 10-11 hybrids as is (6 dps then heals and tanks) tbh why complain? does your guild worry about your dps? or is it only your little epeen thats annoyed here?

[Skiball]

I have posted on this topic in a different thread, but here is the jist of it. I loved when some classes were support dps class and some were pure. THat is all well and good. However, when blizz added utility to everyone, then the dps has to be equal. If your gonna take away the point of the hybird than the hybrid needs to do the same dps.

Also, no one seems to complain about hyrbids being good at tanking and healing at endgame. If you use the logic "well they can do x and y so z should be less" then by nature a hyrbid ahould not be able to tank or heal as well which is retarded. /end hypocrisy.