Fury dps

[Venun]

Does anyone know of a 3.2+ fury guide, sort-of?
To elaborate abit: I'm a warrior tank, endgame raiding (atm trying anub 25hc etc.), yet as we have ~5 good tanks, we can't always use them in the raid. This is why tanks are required to have a good dps offspec just in case. I took Arms up till now, and got some decent results to at least show I have -some- dps. Compared to other classes in the fights it's still way to low though. I had around ~4.5k on mimiron fight (non-hc) afaik, for comparison.

Now after reading into dps some more, it seems fury is the better chosen dps offspec, for those who want to get some more dps basically (utility set aside. just assume the raid has all buffs covered without this spec).

I got some very basic questions about fury, so I reckon one (updated) guide would answer most, if not all, my questions. (stats to aim for, gemming questions, hit/exp caps, etc.)

Thanks ahead for probably guiding me to a good guide!

[magiceggo]

TheGreatMe's fury tutorial vids on Youtube. That's all you need.

Secondly, the problem with your question is that you're not considering your gear level in the debate whether or not to switch from Arms to Fury. What kind of stats do you have, and more imiportantly, do you have the weapons to support a switch to Fury?

Fury, on the whole, requires mostly ilvl 226 gear and TWO 232 dps weapons to really mandate switching from Arms. If you have this, then I say you should go on ahead. If you don't have this gear level requirement, then your Fury dps will fall behind Arms badly. You will be rage starved, you won't hit very hard, and in general, you will suck.

A lot of people like to spec Fury way too early, and end up settling for subpar dps. Do your homework and see if you can support 5k+ fury damage with your current gear.

Get a couple decent weapons. I cannot stress this enough. This is basically what is going to determine when you can go fury or not.

When you have an OFFHAND weapon with high enough dps (232 dps or so), and have the attack power/crit/armor pen to basically generate enough rage to use heroic strike 80% of the time, then you will do more damage as Fury. How often you can heroic strike without getting rage starved and ruining the rest of your rotation is what separates well-geared fury warriors from who specced into it too early. Heroic strike consumes your mainhand swing, and it burns 12 rage, so your offhand swing rage generation is very, very important.

[Venun]

Thank you for your reply, this helps

my ilvl gear, even for my offspec dps, is pretty good.
Atm I'm using Anquish (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47911) as my arms weapon.
I have gotten my hands on 1 of the toc25 swords (Edge of Agony, non-heroic). Aiming for a second good sword before I actually make the swap. I have the feeling my gear level is up for it, however.

If armory would support my offspec gears I could link it to you, but atm I'm logged off in my dps gears.

Do I focus on ARP however? does it gem different from Arms (I'm gemmed alot into ARP at this moment, still a few str gems but trying to wipe those out)? Stuff like that is what I'm eager to know.

Things like a rotation I can figure out, go wild on some dummies and read up. that's easy to find.
ARP discussions can also be found, but DPS guides still refer to the "old" ARP mostly, so I don't find them reliable.

[keipasha]

Hello! first post for me ^^.

I guess you're going to do fine in no time, but if you want some resumed data here you are:

I'll give you what i am aiming for or having atm, since it works for me.

first, if you have arp trinket, go for the cap. otherwise just gem str.

Stats, i see many furys at 300-350 hit + talents, it is not my case, although if i had the pieces i would give it try.

Normally you are supposed to have 164hit +3% talents

25-26 points on expertise, use racial to calculate if your race gives smth to you.

Go for str pieces if possible, 5000 ap its a good number to start with, the more the better

Crit its comes with your gear normallly and should be around 40% at least with the current gear at your disponsal.

haste it is your last choice unless you find the other stats on that piece are really worth of it.

Practical question about gemming could be str everywhere, if you can get a str bonus using a 10str+10crit is good too.

if you lack expertise in your gear you can gem for ir or use expertise enchants which at least will allow you to gem for more str which is better in raid environment, for very little but it is hehe.


Use death wish wisely and use it with trinket if you can and haste potion.

Also, one indestructible potion just before pull is nice, more than 100ap raid buffed

Recklessness when you have the more procs active if possible

If anyone sees something wrong correct me, hope it helps.

[Venun]

Allright, lots of information i knew most of those parts already, it's really specific things I'm after.
I guess I'll list what I wonder for atm:

- Hit could be ~8% afaik. How much does it hurt to be a little below it in order to obtain some other great stats?
- What's the most used fury build these days? purely for 10-25man raiding (endgame, so coliseum etc.)
- What's the expertise I should aim for? 25-26 is said above. can someone confirm 26? (I'm a tauren, no racial for it)

I'll post some of my ingame stats to make this abit easier to answer:
- ~3800 attackpower (unbuffed, no shouts orso aswell)
- 288 hitrating (near 9%, got to much, I know)
- 532 crit rating (30,8% crit chance)
- 11 expertise (to low, I get this too)
- 777 ARP
- 1424 STR

I have bought the +HIT trinket for triumph badges as I had a major hit shortage (128 hitrating in it). I use the Expertise trinket elsewhise. my other trinket is ARP (Banner of Victory)
My professions are Mining and Engineering, race is Tauren.
If you want to armory it, it's Venun on realm Auchindoun (EU)

[5ergio]

I don't have access to ToGC25 gear yet mate but below is my stats and a few pointers from me as well (I'm using offspec fury as well):

- Using ilvl232 MH, ilvl219 OH (yea I know it's a bit low but I like fury more )
- 4190 AP unbuffed
- 33.14% crit
- 28/33 expertise (using axe in OH as Orc)
- 5.92% hit (194) + 3% from talents
- 35.23% ArP with no ArP trinket procs (493 rating)
- 1316 str & 574 agi (using agi neck/ring as off-spec gearing is not easy for me in the current guild setup)
- 3.32% haste & 2pT8 bonus of 150 haste rating

Try to stay ABOVE 8% all the time as fury, being a bit over does hurt your dps but over 8% hit is absolutely useless for Arms whereas it is not that much for Fury. Nothing hurts more than missing a MH swing.

Definitely try to get your expertise up to 25-26 figures. 26 is the exact cap afaik but sitting at 25 won't hurt that much.

18/53 or 19/52 is the usual Fury builds out there but a lot of points depend on your raid setup. For example if you have a ret pala for Improved BoM you may as well get Improved Demo Shout for more tank survivability or still spec into Commanding Presence and keep up Commanding Shout. You may want to get Improved Execute or not depending or your usage, at least I tend to replace Slam! with Execute >20%. You may as well get Glyph of Cleaving & Improved Cleave for more AoE damage.

Finally for gems, I'm stacking STR straight away since I have no ArP proc trinkets. With a GT or MR, I'd most likely gem to achieve ArP soft cap with the proc & keep gemming STR after it. Not sure what you use as a meta gem but, if you don't have 2 good BLUE socket bonuses go for Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (21agi 3%crit damage) & use a Nighmare Tear (+10 all stats) to activate it Try to socket 10str 10crit in yellow sockets if you have good str or crit bonuses.

All in all, Landsoul's spreadsheet will help you in gearing but going to fury? Totally your call if you are not trying min-max your dps I like Fury and I'm rolling with it even though as Arms I'll be doing more damage I assume. Also do not use the spreadsheet to compare Fury to Arms as it won't reflect that, in case you haven't seen/heard Landsoul say it.

[keipasha]

I believe 5ergio gave you good answers, i will just write down my stats for your orientation,

Ap: 5238
crit: 43.72
hit:178 (+3% talents roughly over the minimum)
arp: 34.8% (just from gear i dont gem for it since no gt o ms)
exp: 26 (some days 25 always try to be at the minimum with any new gear)
1888str and over 500agi (bad luck with weapons wish they could have str)
1.89% haste

my armory is keipasha, realm tyrande, eu if you wanna take a look also to my talents, not perfect maybe but they work for me. Although i test little changes very often the basic build is always the same.

i would say trade some hit and arp gems for str.

[Venun]

Allright looks good. So basically I should go back to gem STR instead of ARP, as I see it here.
P.S: I don't gem for hit, never that's a basic rule

[Devro]

Allright looks good. So basically I should go back to gem STR instead of ARP, as I see it here.
P.S: I don't gem for hit, never that's a basic rule

No. In fact, I find several issues with some of the answers on this thread.

You have 777 ArP, which is great. Once you have 680+ ArP, you need to start gemming ArP as it will be worth more than gemming Str at that point. Having 70%+ passive ArP will net you more DPS than having ~50% ArP + GT/MR proc, since the proc is not always on you. So, in conclusion, stick with ArP gemming. If you get a GT or MR, only get enough ArP to have 100% with the proc and gem the rest into Str.

Stay as close as you can to 8% +hit as possible without going under. Missing a special is very detrimental to your DPS, even if it is only .25%.

You do not need 2-ilvl232 weapons to go into Fury. The Edge of Ruin from 5 man ToC Heroic is excellent, especially since it is itemized very well to give you Armor Pen and Crit.

Expertise is helpful, but not necessary. It will come with gear and I have never felt the need to gem for it (check my armory, I actually have too much!). 26 is the cap if you are attacking from behind, where the enemy can not parry/block your attacks.

[nitrizzle]

Something I find surprising that no one mentions is aoe. If at any point in the fight you have to switch and quickly burn/cleave down a mob, then arp just became better than strength (provided of course that you don't have a warrior offtank sundering the mobs).

[Deleted]

Something I find surprising that no one mentions is aoe. If at any point in the fight you have to switch and quickly burn/cleave down a mob, then arp just became better than strength (provided of course that you don't have a warrior offtank sundering the mobs).

Wrong, ARP is not more affective against targets without sunders. It's true that you'd reduce more armor but the net increase in damage is infact lower without sunders.

[Deleted]

Expertise is helpful, but not necessary. It will come with gear and I have never felt the need to gem for it (check my armory, I actually have too much!). 26 is the cap if you are attacking from behind, where the enemy can not parry/block your attacks.

You suggest that you shouldn't ever drop below 8% hit while expertise is nothing to stress about: That is wrong, for 1 simple reason.

They do the exact same thing.

As fury, a dodged hit is just as bad as a miss. It's simply an attack that did not land, you need to get rid of it by capping both. Only diffrence between the two stats from a DPS standpoint is that hit affects demoralizing shout, aswell as heroic throw/shattering throw (I imagine no fury warrior uses thunderclap these days).

As arms you can get by with less expertise, as you got overpower so the DPS loss isn't as great, and some arms warriors get high enough ARP to make it outshine expertise.

[Venun]

Allright, seems I'm ready to go fury then. Can lose some hit (as I'm at 8-9% as arms, and will get talents for it) to make place for Expertise and get that capped.

Thanks for the help, this cleared up alot for me Feel free to discuss further, very interesting read.

edit: oh right, talents ! I'm sure if I toy with the talent calc I can come up with something, but just in case.
What do you reckon is (one of) the best PvE fury talent tree these days? (and please, if you say something like 13/57/0 orso, please specify the talents picked)

edit 2: 2nd question, when I change my stance from Def to Combat, the AP values change accordingly, but my armor penetration doesn't. Can I safely assume this is calced as a seperate value or can it just be added to the count?

If I were to go fury at this point it'd be with 2 swords: Armageddon (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40343) and Edge of Agony (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47884). Would I be better off using 2 axes (from ToC 5 HC for example, have one in bank already) with an axe spec with this amount of armor pen, over 2 2-handed swords (of which 1 is obviously better stat/dps-wise then the axe)? (Edit 4: seems I just found the answer myself - I was assuming there'd be an arms tree weapon mastery in here besides the 2handed mastery, but there's not)

edit 3: Seems I'm gonna have to go out to get a Sharpened Obsidian Edged Blade, loads of expertise there, exactly what I'm missing

[nitrizzle]

Wrong, ARP is not more affective against targets without sunders. It's true that you'd reduce more armor but the net increase in damage is infact lower without sunders.

I don't understand what you are getting at?

If strength is borderline with arp against debuffed targets, and arp is less effective against targets that are debuffed, then logically it will be better than strength against non-debuffed targets.

Armor Penetration GAINS YOU DPS against targets without an armor debuff, and is BORDERLINE with strength against targets with an armor debuff.