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  1. #21

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    I realized that after some of the other replies and I agree. He intentionally didn't do much multi-dotting on the live test, then did a decent amount on the PTR test. The really, really blatant one was of course the premade test though which was a straight multi-dot run with at least two targets full time and most likely a third for part of the time.

  2. #22

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    Haste has always had a negative impact on mana efficiency...
    Not true

    Haste does not effect DPM (Damage per mana) whatsoever... it has neither a positive or negative effect on effeciency.

    SP & Crit on the other hand increase DPM or have a positive effect on effeciency.

    Just becuase haste doesn't increase effeciency doesn't mean it has a negative impact.

  3. #23

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Not true

    Haste does not effect DPM (Damage per mana) whatsoever... it has neither a positive or negative effect on effeciency.

    SP & Crit on the other hand increase DPM or have a positive effect on effeciency.

    Just becuase haste doesn't increase effeciency doesn't mean it has a negative impact.
    He didnt mean DPM. He prolly meant MPS(Mana per second) if this term exist. the more haste u have the more mana u need. Our Ele Shami has alot haste (800-1000) and he actually goes oom sometimes:> So there is a negativ effect of haste but i dont think we will get mana problems.

  4. #24

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    Depends how you define efficiency. Haste will increase mana used per second, which can easily be called efficiency

  5. #25

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexio
    Depends how you define efficiency. Haste will increase mana used per second, which can easily be called efficiency
    you do the same damage in less time -> more efficiency, less endurance

  6. #26

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    Guys, guys, put down the pitchforks, please. Now that i'm looking at the third screenshot again, it DOES look a bit odd to me aswell, but i'm 100% certain i didn't even target anything but the heroic dummy. The only reasonable explanation i can give is that in that screenshot, the 2 "parts" of it arent "corresponding", like the small part that shows damage done and DPS is Current Fight while the big part that shows the numbers of ticks is Overall Data or the fight before Current Fight. If you're still not convinced then feel free to ignore the whole original post and do YOUR OWN dps tests on PTR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deyus
    This guy has 348 haste...
    No i dont, i have 524, and the gear on my armory havent been altered since i posted the original post.

  7. #27

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Haste does not effect DPM (Damage per mana) whatsoever... it has neither a positive or negative effect on effeciency.
    As someone else said, this is about mana per second. DPS chain cast. If you are not chain casting you are doing it wrong. For haste to be a DPS increase it also becomes a MPS loss. So you are either not wasting your haste, or you are burning your mana faster. DPM increases with other stats, but MPS is key in determining longevity, not DPM. DPM is only useful in figuring out how efficient individual spells are. MPS takes time into account which can then be calculated against MP/5.

    @ OP: 348, or 624 doesn't matter. You would need 2,000-4,000 haste for those numbers to make sense. It's not going to happen. In one screenshot you got 179 VT ticks and 66 DP ticks. Explain? You got 100 MF ticks in a 218 second test, but 80 in a 255 second test? It's really obvious what's going on.

  8. #28

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by I heal in Shadowform
    Guys, guys, put down the pitchforks, please. Now that i'm looking at the third screenshot again, it DOES look a bit odd to me aswell, but i'm 100% certain i didn't even target anything but the heroic dummy. The only reasonable explanation i can give is that in that screenshot, the 2 "parts" of it arent "corresponding", like the small part that shows damage done and DPS is Current Fight while the big part that shows the numbers of ticks is Overall Data or the fight before Current Fight. If you're still not convinced then feel free to ignore the whole original post and do YOUR OWN dps tests on PTR.
    No i dont, i have 524, and the gear on my armory havent been altered since i posted the original post.
    Atleast my recount always shows the corresponding details to what is shown in the main window.
    All the screenshots have mathematically impossible dot ticks for a single target fight.

    Got the newest recount?

  9. #29

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    I honestly do not get this patch. I can perfectly well and repeatably reach dps between 4200 and 4300 on live servers while my copied character is performing very poor on the PTRs. I do see a slight buff up to 4400-4600 but all the numbers I read about in forums like this or at shadowpriest.com suggest a much bigger buff. Don't get me wrong, buffing dps about 200-300 is in fact a great deal though I just can not replicate huge dps increases I see throughout the community's feedback.

    You could say that PTR buffs are scaling with haste (logically) but the thing is - I got 547 haste rating which is currently more than enough... http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...liga&n=Luminee

    Suggestions?

    (I tried both the boss puppet as well as the ordinary level 80 puppet to reduce RNG-effects though in percentage I could not see huge differences. I also changed PTR realms to a low-pop-realm to eliminate lag and duplicated my addons from live.)

  10. #30

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    Most of the big increases are to people who aren't testing properly (see this post). Average is 10-13%, you're only very slightly lower than that. Would expect to see you at around 4600-4700. Also keep in mind that you gain haste from raid buffs and all the better testing is in raids, not on boss dummies.

  11. #31

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    Most of the big increases are to people who aren't testing properly (see this post). Average is 10-13%, you're only very slightly lower than that. Would expect to see you at around 4600-4700. Also keep in mind that you gain haste from raid buffs and all the better testing is in raids, not on boss dummies.
    the OP also had T8 4-pc setbonus, that helps a shitload

    Feel free to PM me about any question you might have regarding LoL.
    Holy paladin

  12. #32

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by I heal in Shadowform
    No i dont, i have 524, and the gear on my armory havent been altered since i posted the original post.
    You're amazing. Mostly because you had the foresight to use haste gems before the these changes were announced, but also because you were able to increase your haste by 150 overnight without changing your gear/gems AND are able to have your dot's tick as though they have 4x as much haste as you currently do! You're also a bit of a comedian imo.

    Now that you have determined that you somehow clicked the wrong parse when taking screenshots of the damage breakdown, would you mind going back and digging out the correct info for us? We're curious!

  13. #33

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Not true

    Haste does not effect DPM (Damage per mana) whatsoever... it has neither a positive or negative effect on effeciency.

    SP & Crit on the other hand increase DPM or have a positive effect on effeciency.

    Just becuase haste doesn't increase effeciency doesn't mean it has a negative impact.
    Efficiency was technically the wrong word.. i guess. But are you really trying to tell me that in the context you didn't understand what he meant? You don't correct him on his phrasing, you attack the point that he was clearly not making.

    I'm paraphrasing - "The fight is a shorter length because haste causes you to be less mana efficient"

    He obviously means you use more mana per second. The efficiency as defined by dpm stays the same but you run out of mana faster hence the shorter fight length.

    On topic: I'm going to have to download the ptr client now just to test this crap. I just tested on live the other day and hit a personal record 4.2k with recount graph screen shot. I'll be back to post PTR data later.
    Drunk toddlers in a dryer

  14. #34

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    When looking at Recount data, when is actually the most acknowledged time for a screenshot? Just before you leave your dots to run out, after they ran out by looking at "Overall Data" (assuming you did just one fight) or at "Current Data" as the last two numbers vary? I guess "Current Data" is kind of better than "Overall" since it stops collecting couple ticks before last dots would run out but to get a precise result one should get the shot right before stopping casting, or not?

    @harky: Yeah, I see your point there. However, when you look at certain dps charts pulled from spriests of the PTR and you want to compare yourself with that haste buffs in a raid don't really count. I'm just saying that I can't pull the same amount of dps in an equal situation as someone else who doesn't even get close to me on live 3.2 which seriously freaks me the hell out.

  15. #35

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by draticus
    Efficiency was technically the wrong word.. i guess. But are you really trying to tell me that in the context you didn't understand what he meant? You don't correct him on his phrasing, you attack the point that he was clearly not making.
    Yes, technically I could have worded it clearer: If you use time as a quantifier, rather than damage, then haste lowers mana efficiency. I wouldn't bother though. Worshaka is high queen of the straw man argument. :

  16. #36

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Luminee
    When looking at Recount data, when is actually the most acknowledged time for a screenshot? Just before you leave your dots to run out, after they ran out by looking at "Overall Data" (assuming you did just one fight) or at "Current Data" as the last two numbers vary? I guess "Current Data" is kind of better than "Overall" since it stops collecting couple ticks before last dots would run out but to get a precise result one should get the shot right before stopping casting, or not?
    As long as you state when the SS was taken it should be fine.

    If your question relates to Recount's tendency to show extra data caused by the dot's ticking out after you leave combat: You should be able to select the main parse (from your first spell cast until you left combat) in Recount so as to avoid any of the single dot tick 'encounters' that it may show as "Current Data" after combat has ended.

  17. #37

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    I tested on the PTR tonight...

    My testing on live ranges from 4000 to 4100 (i got 4250 once but couldn't duplicate that tonight). On the PTR I couldn't get my usual timers working so I clipped VT and DP a few times and my dps ranged from 4200 to 4350. Even taking the clipping into account its a 10% increase for me at best.

    I have 2544 SP(2869 with trinket stacks), Hit capped, 18.86 crit, 578 haste. I have 2pc T8 and 2pc T9. Avg Ilvl 229. I'm sure there were no debuffs on the dummy. I used Shadow fiend twice.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...lde&n=Draticus

    http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/149...1909211331.jpg - As I stopped casting

    http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/212...1909211517.jpg - After all dots stopped

    Will we see more of an increase from raid buffs or less?
    Drunk toddlers in a dryer

  18. #38

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    You'll be scaling with haste much more, which will have the side effect of increasing SP scaling as well as getting more overall spirit. So yes, Shadow scales much better with buffs now. Don't expect to suddenly be beating everyone though, Shadow is still on the low side of DPS, just no longer unacceptably low.

  19. #39

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by draticus
    Efficiency was technically the wrong word.. i guess. But are you really trying to tell me that in the context you didn't understand what he meant? You don't correct him on his phrasing, you attack the point that he was clearly not making.

    I'm paraphrasing - "The fight is a shorter length because haste causes you to be less mana efficient"

    He obviously means you use more mana per second. The efficiency as defined by dpm stays the same but you run out of mana faster hence the shorter fight length.

    On topic: I'm going to have to download the ptr client now just to test this crap. I just tested on live the other day and hit a personal record 4.2k with recount graph screen shot. I'll be back to post PTR data later.
    I still think it's an important distinction, increasing your mana burn isn't the same as decreasing your mana effeciency.

    If you increase your DPS by 5% via haste and your raid gears similarly to you and deals 5% more damage, the fight will be 5% shorter meaning you'll end up on the same mana you did before.

    Sure that's on over simplification but there is some truth to that assessment. I will concede that if we start gemming haste and prioritising it over sp which looks to be the case there will be an inital negative impact but after that intial change we won't notice anything.

  20. #40

    Re: Live and PTR DPS comparison for shadow

    There is no way I'm going to replace all my gem slots with haste the day the patch comes out. I'll sit and wait, even if it means me hanging back on the DPS for a while until I hear about other people's experiences.

    80 Kingslayer Shadow Priest - Spirestone
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...e&n=Direshadow

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