Conviction and Holy spec

[Accuser.]

lol whichever works for you... just pointing out that a paladin that's geared to use primarily FoL and knows what he or she is doing can put out the healing necessary without many HLs.

[shockpally]

Its common knowledge- If the tanks are being hit for 11k, FoL spam won't kep them up.

Just because I don't have access to 25m HM as Holy doesn't mean I cant read the mechanics of a fight and determine what will work mathematically.

It's called TEAMWORK bud. I mean holy fkng hell. Your guild has like 13 lvl 80 paladin 7 of which have a holy spec and a shit ton of druids. Dont tell me you only have 1 healer on the MT in 25 man content. I can see 10 man content with 2-3 healers but holy crap. You cant bring a healer who is able to help out with tank healing?

What the hell are your priests doing? Are they NOT PWSing the tanks and overlapping aoe heals on the Melee?

Oh i forgot..... That mighty 10% HL splash is enough to keep the melee up. LOL.

[Ronark]

lol whichever works for you... just pointing out that a paladin that's geared to use primarily FoL and knows what he or she is doing can put out the healing necessary without many HLs.

Its the difference between Max-Min-ing and player choices.

It's called TEAMWORK bud. I mean holy fkng hell. Your guild has like 13 lvl 80 paladin 7 of which have a holy spec and a shit ton of druids. Dont tell me you only have 1 healer on the MT in 25 man content. I can see 10 man content with 2-3 healers but holy crap. You cant bring a healer who is able to help out with tank healing?

What the hell are your priests doing? Are they NOT PWSing the tanks and overlapping aoe heals on the Melee?

Oh i forgot..... That mighty 10% HL splash is enough to keep the melee up. LOL.

On average we have 2-3 Paladins, one being myself and the other being the MT.

[shockpally]

On average we have 2-3 Paladins, one being myself and the other being the MT.

Maybe you could work a Disc priest in there who knows how to use PWS. They are much more effective at damage negation than what you are trying to imitate with your Holy/prot spec only being able to be used every 2-5 minutes.

And yes.. i called you and everyone else who thinks Holy/Prot is "The only way" a wanna be disc priest. Only you dont have as much utility.

Remember when we could use SS on multiple targets?

[Ronark]

Maybe you could work a Disc priest in there who knows how to use PWS. They are much more effective at damage negation than what you are trying to imitate with your Holy/prot spec only being able to be used every 2-5 minutes.

And yes.. i called you and everyone else who thinks Holy/Prot is "The only way" a wanna be disc priest. Only you dont have as much utility.

Remember when we could use SS on multiple targets?

I didn't say FoL spam wasn't viable. What I did say was good luck spamming that on your tanks on HM content.

[Lebeau]

Maybe you could work a Disc priest in there who knows how to use PWS. They are much more effective at damage negation than what you are trying to imitate with your Holy/prot spec only being able to be used every 2-5 minutes.

And yes.. i called you and everyone else who thinks Holy/Prot is "The only way" a wanna be disc priest. Only you dont have as much utility.

Remember when we could use SS on multiple targets?

The disc priest role has shifted from primary tank healing which they ironically are weak at)/damage mitigation to bubblebotting the raid with PW:S (where they are insanely powerful). All they are is a walking PW:S, Pain Supression and Inspiration buff (which the resto shaman also brings). There is a REASON they say they feel like the red-headed stepchild of the healing team.

But if you want to cling on to your 8% crit that yields horrible regen and unpredictable overheal for the low low cost of 25% of your available talent points - go ahead. But several things will remain the same with your holy/ret flash build:

-Your single target HPS can be duplicated by a resto druid.
-Your single target HPS is incapable of supporting a Tank in a Hardmode/Heroic enviroment without the support of several other healers (namely the ones that would be betters served using their GCDs to heal the raid)
-Your raid is kneecapping your DPSers since they are using a vital DPS spot to bring an extra healer to carry you.
-You are disadvantaging your raid by skipping out on such a powerful ability. It puts you on par with those warriors/locks that don't feel they should Sunder/CoE since it "hurts their person DPS"

[shockpally]

The disc priest role has shifted from primary tank healing which they ironically are weak at)/damage mitigation to bubblebotting the raid with PW:S (where they are insanely powerful). All they are is a walking PW:S, Pain Supression and Inspiration buff (which the resto shaman also brings). There is a REASON they say they feel like the red-headed stepchild of the healing team.

But if you want to cling on to your 8% crit that yields horrible regen and unpredictable overheal for the low low cost of 25% of your available talent points - go ahead. But several things will remain the same with your holy/ret flash build:

-Your single target HPS can be duplicated by a resto druid.
-Your single target HPS is incapable of supporting a Tank in a Hardmode/Heroic enviroment without the support of several other healers (namely the ones that would be betters served using their GCDs to heal the raid)
-Your raid is kneecapping your DPSers since they are using a vital DPS spot to bring an extra healer to carry you.
-You are disadvantaging your raid by skipping out on such a powerful ability. It puts you on par with those warriors/locks that don't feel they should Sunder/CoE since it "hurts their person DPS"

Wake up Dipshit. Prot is being nerfed to party only and several other limitations. This is obviously to kill something that they never intended but they wont come out and say it because they clearly dont have a clue of which direction Holy paladin are supposed to go.

You dont have to replace a dps to bring a disc priest. The only dissadvantage you will have is relying on a talent in the protection tree to attempt to replace an entire class that will do the exact same thing you are trying to do and do it better.

30% regen from Illumination through crit is still superior than anything you can get from a buff or MP5 alone. It works for HL spamming and it works for FL builds. It is one of the things holy paladin still have going for them even in its current nerfed form. Beacon is the other.

Take either of those 2 away and the class falls on its face dead in the water. It has NOTHING else to offer.

[Lebeau]

Wake up Dipshit. Prot is being nerfed to party only and several other limitations. This is obviously to kill something that they never intended but they wont come out and say it because they clearly dont have a clue of which direction Holy paladin are supposed to go.

Try reading the thread a bit (or some patch notes). I've already pointed out I am well aware of the "nerf" to the ability and even went so far as to point out the obvious buff. The ability which before could only be used every 5 mins at most because of the DS caveat, can now be used every 2 minutes in 3.3. And it STILL offers raidwide damage reduction of 20%.

You dont have to replace a dps to bring a disc priest. The only dissadvantage you will have is relying on a talent in the protection tree to attempt to replace an entire class that will do the exact same thing you are trying to do and do it better.

You run with both. I never said you didn't or one shouldn't - quite the contrary. But obviously anyone who doesn't see the merit in Divine Sacrifice obviously wouldn't understand the power of a disc priest.

Ronark hit the nail on the head with his comment to the Flash of lol Paladins. It takes TWO of them to reach the sustained tank HPS of a single HL paladin. FACT: My HL heals for more than Flash even under the monsterous healing penalty of Divine Plea, and that's with me enchanting and gemming and trinketing for nothing but regen against a spec that makes it's living off of stacking spellpower.

A guild using a HL paladin and a disc priest for tank support has a far more optimal setup than one using two that are focused on Flash as the disc priest brings Inspiration and CD's to the table. Disc as I said earlier also brings one of the most OP (and necessary) forms of burst raid "healing" and mitigation.

Flash Paladins are a waste of space. Not their own space, but a waste of the additional spot needed to bring in more healing to support their HPS shortcomings. Whereas a HL Paladin couldn't want for more output. What are the short comings of a HL Paladin? Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?

30% regen from Illumination through crit is still superior than anything you can get from a buff or MP5 alone. It works for HL spamming and it works for FL builds. It is one of the things holy paladin still have going for them even in its current nerfed form. Beacon is the other.

L2Math.

-It takes 2.5 critical strike rating to equal the itembudget statcost of every 1mp5 on gear.
-1% Crit = 46 critical strike rating
-If chaincasting a 1.2 second HL (to produce the most ideal scenario for an argument FOR crit)
1% crit = 14mp5. So. 3.3 crit rating = 1mp5 with illumination for HL users.
-If chaincasting a 1 second Flash of Light 1% crit = 5mp5. So 9.5 crit rating = 1mp5 with Illumination for Flash of Light users.

In short, it takes more of an item's budget to get equivalent returns in Mp5 from crit rating than just gearing for mp5 directly. 32% more costly for Holy Light users, and 280% more costly for Flash of Light users.

Illumination was nerfed in 3.2 because the developers felt that it made crit (which they always viewed as a throughput stat) give more regen than the stat they made specifically for regen (Mp5). This was absolutely true. At the time mp5 consumed 20% more of an item's budget than it does now, and crit gave twice the regen it does now. Crit was superior to Mp5 in every single way.

The problem however is the hybrid nature of critrating when illumination is taken into consideration. HL paladins couldn't care less about the throughput nature of Crit as HL heals for more than enough even if it doesn't crit. Which is why HL paladins are shedding Crit like a winter coat and picking up all the haste/mp5 gear they can (I'm looking at you Mail). Flash of Light on the other hand doesn't need the regen from crit so much as the healing increase. Let's face it non crit Flashes aren't impressing anybody. It won't save any lives that any of the other 5 healing specs can't cover themselves.

Take either of those 2 away and the class falls on its face dead in the water. It has NOTHING else to offer.

We have a lot more going for us. Our class offers the single most powerful throughput option in the game. We offer a myriad of Buffs pivital to the success of a raid in the form of Blessings. We have some of the most powerful tideturning cooldowns in the game in the form of Hand of Protection, Hand of Salvation, Hand of Freedom, Divine Sacrifice, and Aura Mastery.

Hopefully as time goes on you will grow more familiar with your class and develop a deeper understanding of our mechanics.