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  1. #1

    disc hitting the ceiling?

    I was getting an impression lately, that disc priest just isnt as good compared to other classes when it comes to hard modes. I'm not sure why - because of class design or poor scaling. I'm in a pretty good guild, one of the top on server, working on hardmodes in Coliseum. I'm pretty sure, our raid leaders consider me as a good healer, i know they do, but when it comes to setup for hard modes i get to sit out (as well as our another great disc priest), just because i cant do so much healing like pallys on tanks, or druids on val'kyrs-hard or firefighter. Druids can easily 10k hps on this fight, and i feel like 6-7k (hps+absorb) is my ceiling no matter what i do (although the absorb meter is broken on valkyrs, but i'm estimating).
    Yeah, and this week on Anub'arak-hard, the heal setup was three(!!!!) paladins, a shammy and a tree, priests on the bench. I mean, really whats the point of bringing a disc, when pallys are SO good on tanks? This thing, that pallys can heal 2 tanks at once just made other tank healers obsolete.
    Anyone else feels like the higher gear all healers get, the more disc priest feels limited compared to other classes? Or is it just that grass always looks greener on other side?

  2. #2

    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    Adding ~8k effective health to a raid can be phenominal for some hardmodes. As a Disc priest focusing on the raid ~10k HPS is pretty attainable with colliseum level gear & a fight where there is constant raid AOE damage to consume shields.
    Constant PoM bouncing+Shield Spam the raid (and assumedly full healing on Glyph of PW:S). Not Ideal for many fights but It can outpreform most on fights like Freya+3/Firefighter/Heroic Valk'yr. I do see your point with Disc hitting a "ceiling" due to scaling and tools available though.

  3. #3

    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctavice
    Adding ~8k effective health to a raid can be phenominal for some hardmodes. As a Disc priest focusing on the raid ~10k HPS is pretty attainable with colliseum level gear & a fight where there is constant raid AOE damage to consume shields.
    Constant PoM bouncing+Shield Spam the raid (and assumedly full healing on Glyph of PW:S). Not Ideal for many fights but It can outpreform most on fights like Freya+3/Firefighter/Heroic Valk'yr. I do see your point with Disc hitting a "ceiling" due to scaling and tools available though.
    I believe they need to either make GH part of the "rotation"(make it cost less mana and casts faster) or buff FH more. We probably won't see these talent changes until Cataclysm, but it would be a good idea to get them out there already so we might actually see the changes.

    The 2pc t10 is amazing now that it is not based on crits and that it could potentially heal for more.

  4. #4

    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    Uh. Your raid leader is possibly retarded and definitely daft. In any healing setup right now for serious encounters the first healer you should grab is Disc. The second is a Paladin. For 25 mans the third is a second Disc Priest. Then you grab other healers to fill out. A lot of the problems people see with Disc is due to bad Disc Priests, or misunderstanding what makes a good Disc Priest. If you're Disc and doing really well, most people who don't fully understand Disc will assume you're doing very, very poorly. At the same time those same people see a straight up bad Disc Priest and assume they're doing good. They're looking at the wrong charts, basically. They're looking at HPS, instead of incoming DPS. Good Disc PRiests on a tank drop incoming DPS by 2k+. You can drop incoming raid DPS by upwards of 4k as well. People would rather look at HPS though.

  5. #5

    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    I went inactive a month ago but I healed Firefighter as Discipline (with ilvl 226 gear). My guild did 3 bosses in ToC 25 hard mode, I was Disc at all 3, never hit a ceiling. It might be that you're just not good enough or that your raid leader judges you by healing done, which is really really stupid. If you can keep the tank up and help your raid healers with PW:S / PoM and occasional penance to save someone from dying then your job is done. No amount of paladins will be able to do what disc priests do, but if one doesn't want to listen then why try to convince that guy otherwise?

  6. #6

    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    I've healed every hardmode and normal encounter since LK launch as disc and I always feel i'm important to the raid. There are some fights where disc priests aren't the best healers, but that's not just us, it happens to all healers. As for Anub HC, which I'm working on now, disc priest is absolutely awesome, especially in P3 for shielding the whole raid and and healing debuffs. It makes it a lot less scarier

  7. #7

    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    Disc is awsome for hardmodes if:
    You know what your doing.
    You were not assigned somthing disc is not good at.


    There is nothing wrong with disc, It is one of the top healers and most fun if I do say so.
    When people say "pls" just because its shorter then "please", I feel totally justified to say "No" just because its shorter then "Yes".

  8. #8

    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedPower
    Disc is awsome for hardmodes if:
    You know what your doing.
    You were not assigned somthing disc is not good at.
    Fixed. Disc is good if you know what you're doing. That's all.

  9. #9

    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    First off I want to say its too bad that your priests (disc and holy sounds like) are sitting on the bench and that it sounds like your raid leader either has no clue how to set up a good raid or has a preference to holy paladins. With that said, like others have said, EVERY hardmode raid group should have a disc priest in it. The fact that you reduce ALL DAMAGE TAKEN by everyone in the raid by 3% can not and should not be over looked.

    As far as what you are doing when you are healing personally I NEVER use GH, dont even have it on my bar, costs too much and cast time is too long. As for flash heal, ONLY if I NEED to, generally very low on my overall healing. Most of my healing will come from 3 things 1) POM- with the 2 piece t9 this is generally my top healing ability. 2) penance - this is you big direct heal and your 51 point talent it should be top 3 in every fight. 3) GLYPH of PwoS - thats right in most fights i get more healing from the 20% of my shield then i do from flash heal or any thing else. If you are casting renew alot, dont. Its not that good for disc, costs too much and you dont get anything back from it (hots are for druids, and its ok for holy priests).

    On to your topic title I have to say I have no idea what you are talking about. PwoS is your bread and butter. The reason why disc is so good is because they can do something that no other class can effectively do and that is prevent damage, and alot of it. Every healing class can heal but no other healing class can come anywhere close in the damage prevention area. You said you see druids getting 10k+ hps in twin valks, and you only get 6-7k Hps+Abs, I dont want to sound mean but this sounds like your problem. SPAM MORE SHIELDS. In HM 25 twin valks I will often have over 10k ABS alone and then an additional 2-3k HPS from nothing but pom shield glyph and the occasional penance on a low hp target. When you have disc priests having 10K+ ABs you will notice that those same druids will only have 6-7k HPS, thats just how it goes.

    Anyway, for hitting a ceiling.... NO unless they cap sp disc can not hit a ceiling, your pom penance and PwoS all scale off of sp. I have over 3k sp self buffed, mana is not an issue for disc once you have good gear stop looking at gear with spirit and start looking at gear with sp haste and crit (ie Merlins Robes, Bejewled bracers are great, SHADOW helm from ony25 man), Use int trinkets if you think you will need the mana for a fight, typically I use sp, or crit sp trinkets. (broodmothers eye, and 150 sp/mp5 trinket from Jaraxxs is AMAZING) Gem for strait sp unless the socket bonus is worth it then I like sp/crit (yellow) or sp/mp5 (blue) In short the more sp you have the more effective healing/absorb you can get, unless you have mana issues (which you should not) sp > everything else.

    PS - btw disc priests are by far and away the best RAID healers for anub HM, can you say prevent anub from healing with leeching swarm. you can keep everyone around 10-20% and only heal penatrating cold ppl (let the pallies heal the tanks).

  10. #10

    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    Absorbs from shields are factored into the ammount leeched, though I do agree that disc is the best suited for keeping up targets with penetrating cold for anub.

  11. #11

    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    ??? ???
    If a shaman tells you that he can't tank, he's just not doing it right.

  12. #12

    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmagoo

    said you see druids getting 10k+ hps in twin valks, and you only get 6-7k Hps+Abs, I dont want to sound mean but this sounds like your problem. SPAM MORE SHIELDS. In HM 25 twin valks I will often have over 10k ABS alone and then an additional 2-3k HPS from nothing but pom shield glyph and the occasional penance on a low hp target. When you have disc priests having 10K+ ABs you will notice that those same druids will only have 6-7k HPS, thats just how it goes.

    PS - btw disc priests are by far and away the best RAID healers for anub HM, can you say prevent anub from healing with leeching swarm. you can keep everyone around 10-20% and only heal penatrating cold ppl (let the pallies heal the tanks).
    Sorry to disappoint you, but its not possible for disc to reach 10k absorbs. You see those big numbers on val'kyrs (i have those too you know) because there are absorbs from orbs, and since addon cannot distingush between your shields and absorbs from orbs, the numbers get seriously inflated. Seening other fights, where absorbs are much better tracked, i would think about 5-6k absorbs per second is max you can get, assuming you do nothing but spam PWS. But usually i'm also assigned to watch tanks, so tanks usually get penances, and a few flashes, ProM is on CD also, so absobs drop a little, to about 4k, and my healing is about 3,5k. Thats why i said 7k.

    I also feel like disc is good for phase 3 on Anub, but we havent got to it yet, have to deal with high tank damage on first fight while learning... i guess that was the reason to bring pallys.

    They're looking at the wrong charts, basically. They're looking at HPS, instead of incoming DPS. Good Disc PRiests on a tank drop incoming DPS by 2k+. You can drop incoming raid DPS by upwards of 4k as well. People would rather look at HPS though.
    well, its kinda hard to compare incoming damage. You see the drop in damage taken, and you assume that people got better in getting out of fire but i see your point.

    The problem really is not that i dont get into raids (actually, i took part in 3 out of 4 first kills in H-ToC), but that i feel helpless when so much damage is flying around, my single-target shields dont feel so powerful, because on those heavy fights i cant really pre-shield, i just patch people in hope other healers are going to top them out. When tank damage is so high, i cant bomb them like paladins, all i can do is small silly flashes while my Penance and shield are on CD. Its frustrating.

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans -Ethos-'s Avatar
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    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by anmax09
    Sorry to disappoint you, but its not possible for disc to reach 10k absorbs. You see those big numbers on val'kyrs (i have those too you know) because there are absorbs from orbs, and since addon cannot distingush between your shields and absorbs from orbs, the numbers get seriously inflated. Seening other fights, where absorbs are much better tracked, i would think about 5-6k absorbs per second is max you can get, assuming you do nothing but spam PWS. But usually i'm also assigned to watch tanks, so tanks usually get penances, and a few flashes, ProM is on CD also, so absobs drop a little, to about 4k, and my healing is about 3,5k. Thats why i said 7k.

    I also feel like disc is good for phase 3 on Anub, but we havent got to it yet, have to deal with high tank damage on first fight while learning... i guess that was the reason to bring pallys.

    well, its kinda hard to compare incoming damage. You see the drop in damage taken, and you assume that people got better in getting out of fire but i see your point.

    The problem really is not that i dont get into raids (actually, i took part in 3 out of 4 first kills in H-ToC), but that i feel helpless when so much damage is flying around, my single-target shields dont feel so powerful, because on those heavy fights i cant really pre-shield, i just patch people in hope other healers are going to top them out. When tank damage is so high, i cant bomb them like paladins, all i can do is small silly flashes while my Penance and shield are on CD. Its frustrating.
    You talk alot about your tanks taking major damage, they should be spiking on certain fights but shouldnt be taking consistantly high damage. Are your tanks like really undergeared compared to the rest of your raid or are you pallies not able to keep up with healing? For H anub your tank(s) should be aiming for block gear if theyre tanking the burrowers which should reduce the damage they take by alot, we use two tanks for two burrowers each and have a pally healing each tank, then a resto shaman on the MT on Anub. The druids on raid and the two disc priests we use usually just dps til phase 3, so it sounds like your tanks either havent gotten their sets together yet or your pallies need to pick it up.

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  14. #14

    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    The only ceiling there is to hit, IMO, is Haste. I've chosen to go with haste and mana pool over regen spirit, in most cases, so i've got over 15% base haste in raid buffs. I've decided to swap to a GH spec to increase actual output of healing, and it's working well. on average, I'm dropping a 16k Crit GH every two seconds, without borrowed time or anything like that. So, depending on your gear setup, it might be worth either dropping some haste or swapping to GH spec.

  15. #15

    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    'Disco are tank healers' is a myth like anub'arak cleaves, we are only tank healers 1 second out of every 8. the rest of the time you should be spamming shields like there is no tomorrow on most fights.
    'u get constant hit by ice shit from roof so you can travel instantly all across the room'

  16. #16

    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    For tank healing Pally > Disc > Shaman > Tree > Holy
    For raid healing Tree > Disc > Pally > Holy > Shaman

    There are many encounters where disc and tree interchange.

    Seriously, if you're going to sit healers, start with holy priests, then shamans. Actually, never bring them. The only reason to bring a shaman is bloodlust and if you need 1 or more of their buffs. The only reason to bring a holy priest is covered by a disc priest.

    But yeah, Pally healers are OP as hell. Stack them first. I can't see why they haven't gotten huge nerfs again. The mana nerf did nothing while the beacon buff made them the best healers by far.

    But after taking 1 or 2 pallies, I'd take at least 1 disc priest. Then a tree. Insert repeats of one/two of those and you're good to go.

    The only problem I see with disc is stacking too many of them just makes them mess each other up. It's the only healer that has that problem.
    Nom Nom Nom [NNF] (2 points) - When you Ferocious Bite a target at or below 25% health, you have a 50/100% chance to instantly refresh the duration of your Rip on the target.

  17. #17
    Dreadlord Sellest's Avatar
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    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    Fixed. Disc is good if you know what you're doing. That's all.
    Sadly many bad players goes disc build and then says it as apologize "I am absorbing, not healing, screw meters" when people dying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xombo
    ??? ???
    I almost peed myself :P

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans -Ethos-'s Avatar
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    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonberry
    For raid healing Tree > Disc > Pally > Holy > Shaman

    There are many encounters where disc and tree interchange.

    Seriously, if you're going to sit healers, start with holy priests, then shamans. Actually, never bring them. The only reason to bring a shaman is bloodlust and if you need 1 or more of their buffs. The only reason to bring a holy priest is covered by a disc priest.
    Disc Priests will never take over the role of a Holy Priest. The whole garbage mentality that alot have adopted lately is "Lets spam a raid with shields for an entire fight. This makes us more useful than any raid healer". Holy priests still have the potential output on fights like Twins HM where shield spam will not keep up.

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  19. #19
    High Overlord Heratix's Avatar
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    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonberry
    Seriously, if you're going to sit healers, start with holy priests
    Wait, wut? Any idea how much utility Holy priest have when specced right ?
    Depending on the skill of the person, Holy priests are still damn viable in raids.

  20. #20

    Re: disc hitting the ceiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by talrob
    'Disco are tank healers' is a myth like anub'arak cleaves, we are only tank healers 1 second out of every 8. the rest of the time you should be spamming shields like there is no tomorrow on most fights.
    This. As Disc you're more a supportive MT healer than solo. Your job is to prevent raid from taking damage rather than outheal it which is godly for most of the fights, (especially Firefighter).
    Get used to being last on healing meters, after all its right heal, in right time on right person that matters the most, not who spammed more rejuvenation on 100% hp targets to top them as soon as they take minor damage.
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