Blood Mage; more "Mage" or "Warlock"?

[Zethras]

Blood Death Knights are more like Blood Mages then warlocks or mages IMO, aside from a slightly different wardrobe choice.

[Viradiance]

More mage than warlock.

They augment Arcane fire with the spirits of demons captured in their Verdant Spheres.

They do not consort with demons, they do not summon demons, they do not use demonic magic.

They trap demons and crush their souls into better fire.

[mordale]

More mage than warlock.

They augment Arcane fire with the spirits of demons captured in their Verdant Spheres.

They do not consort with demons, they do not summon demons, they do not use demonic magic.

They trap demons and crush their souls into better fire.

cause its not like we warlocks do that too... oh wait what this button "sacrifice demon" do?

deathknights and warlocks are the only two player classes that use blood magic in any form.

[checking facts]

my 2 cents on the matter:

1 - all blood mages in-game use mage spells only (or some mage-flavored custom spells);
2 - blood mages summon a fire elemental (phoenix), while mages summon can summon a water elemental);
3 - kael'thas is the only blood mage who uses verdant spheres;
4 - mages have 2 blood mage based sets, warlocks have 0;

so IMHO blood mages are mages who kind of wanted to be warlocks, so they use a lesser version of the sacrificial magic warlocks use (using blood instead of living flesh) to empower their common mage spells.

[Cernunnos]

Blood mage hero unit in WCIII's abilities are

Banish (warlock)
Syphon Mana (warlock) Or was till they removed in in MOP or cata i forget which.
Flamestrike (mage)
and summon phoenix which is neither mage nor warlock.



Taken from the WCIII: TFT game manual
A mystical Hero, adept at controlling magic and ranged assaults. Though still members of the Alliance, the Blood Elves have begun to turn to the darkest parts of magic, abandoning the water and frost spells of the Kirin Tor for the fire and heat of what some people fear to be Demonic magic. Attacks land and air units.



I'd say a Blood Mage is closer to a warlock than a mage, but it's willing to go that extra step for knowledge like a warlock would.

Warlocks are more the kind that would make a pact with a demon in exchange for power, much in the same vain that Faust made a deal with the devil, but why simply make a deal with said demon, when you can control them and have them tell you their secrets?

[checking facts]

Blood mage hero unit in WCIII's abilities are

Banish (warlock)
Syphon Mana (warlock) Or was till they removed in in MOP or cata i forget which.
Flamestrike (mage)
and summon phoenix which is neither mage nor warlock.



Taken from the WCIII: TFT game manual
A mystical Hero, adept at controlling magic and ranged assaults. Though still members of the Alliance, the Blood Elves have begun to turn to the darkest parts of magic, abandoning the water and frost spells of the Kirin Tor for the fire and heat of what some people fear to be Demonic magic. Attacks land and air units.

warlocks never had a spell named siphon mana. they had drain mana, but you could say drain mana is as much "syphon mana" as the blood elf racial mana tap was.

so it's one warlock, one mage, one warlock-ish (drain mana-like) and one mage-ish [summon phoenix (a fire elemental) similar to how frost mages summon water elementals].

[Justignoreme]

Blood mage hero unit in WCIII's abilities are

Banish (warlock)
Syphon Mana (warlock) Or was till they removed in in MOP or cata i forget which.
Flamestrike (mage)
and summon phoenix which is neither mage nor warlock.

Taken from the WCIII: TFT game manual
A mystical Hero, adept at controlling magic and ranged assaults. Though still members of the Alliance, the Blood Elves have begun to turn to the darkest parts of magic, abandoning the water and frost spells of the Kirin Tor for the fire and heat of what some people fear to be Demonic magic. Attacks land and air units.

I think we are seeing two different types of "Blood Mage" here. One is a "Blood (Elf) Mage" which is as described. The other is a Blood Mage (user of Blood Magic), like the gnome in the Blasted Lands.
It's a difference as one are Fire-obsessed Blood Elf mages flirting with demonic magic, the other is using blood itself as a medium for magic and seems quite different (along with not being a blood elf). It's like a Death Knight. Death Knight like Gorefiend, and Death Knight like Arthas.

[Claymore]

Yeah, I suppose I should have made that distinction. I'm referring to the Warcraft III Blood Mage; the Bloodmages in Blasted Lands and Black Temple are something wholly different, being that they are based on the literal usage of Blood, which the WC3 unit is not :P

[Deleted]

It's just a step on the road to damnation that warlocks are.

Far closer to mages than warlocks - I've generally thought of it as a step you can't take back though, you'd never find a mage using blood spells, because they'd be a blood mage by that point (though that certainly isn't a warlock by any means) - warlocks still dabble in blood magic.

That aside, as people have said - it depends what definition you use and if there even is one anymore.

Blood Mages in W3 were Blood Elf Mages that had started dabbling in darker magic, but FAR from falling into consorting with demons.

The Blood Mages that recently turned up in WoW seem to be a different thing entirely, albeit a spin on the original idea.

[Deleted]

Well they do not bind demons to their will, so they have nothing to do with warlocks.

[Kathranis]

Bloodmagi are mages that have started going down the dark path. They're not quite warlocks yet, but they're moving in that direction.


"Many of the stoic high elves, reeling from the loss of their ancient homeland, Quel'Thalas, have given in to their hatred and despair and embraced the dark side of their magical natures. Calling themselves 'Blood Elves' - these cold hearted refugees seek to expand their remaining magical powers at any cost - even if it means courting the infernal powers of the Burning Legion! Though still loyal to the Alliance, the Blood Elves' passions will lead them not only to the highest pinnacles of power, but to the darkest depths of madness."

"While they were still members of the Alliance, the blood elves began to turn to the darkest parts of magic, abandoning the water and frost spells of the Kirin Tor for the fire and heat of what some people fear to be demonic magic."
- http://classic.battle.net/war3/human...loodmage.shtml


Mages haven't approached the threshold yet, and warlocks have already crossed the line.

That said, warlocks now have access to Verdant Spheres and even make use of some blood magic, both in lore and in actual game mechanics now, such as with Blood Fear. Though not mentioned in Warcraft III, there are several in World of Warcraft who explicitly do use blood, including demon blood, as reagents for their spells. They also make use of demonic altars.

I expect that we may have some lore developments concerning bloodmages and blood magic in 5.3, as the Sunreavers obtain an apparatus from the Dark Animus that will let them research blood and life magic.


From an RP standpoint, a Fire Mage could RP a bloodmage, but a Destruction Warlock would probably be the better choice, ideally while using Grimoire of Sacrifice and Glyph of Verdant Spheres.


Edit: Also, regarding the warlocks exploring the Firelands. Technically, that's where phoenixes are summoned from.

[Teriz]

I'd be shocked if Fire Mages didn't get the Phoenix in the next expansion.

When that happens, I'll pull my level 80 Mage out of retirement.

[DeicideUH]

One must separate gameplay from lore. The gameplay classes are broad concepts that unify several lore concepts. The in-game warlock is a generic user of forbidden magic; The in-lore Blood Mage is a mage that went too far into his use of magics and begins to incorporate some forbidden destructive magics into his repertoire. Technically, in-lore a warlock could learn mage spells as well. You can roleplay a Fire Mage as a Blood Mage, but you can also roleplay a Destruction Warlock as a Blood Mage. Which one is better? Depends on personal experience.

This is just the same problem someone willing to play a ranger faces in WoW: he must make a Hunter, and he can't go petless. But in-lore, hunters with pets are the exception, not the rule. (And the Warcraft 3 Beastmaster problem... you may make a Fury Warrior for the dual wield melee or a Hunter for the pets, but you can't have a dual-wielding warrior with pets)

[Deleted]

Well, I've always tried to base my characters around WC2 or WC3 units (at least, my non-main, who I base more around racials). When it comes to the Blood Mage, though, I'm not quite sure.

Obviously, they've all got history as Mages, Flamestrike being a staple of the Blood Mage. However, there are also obvious ties with the Warlock's fel magic, not only in Banish, but the overall color schemes. All Blood Mages, no doubt, began their careers as Mages, but so did most Warlocks, so perhaps the Blood Mage is simply a Pet-less Destro Warlock?


Sure, it's not an overly important topic, but it's at least fun to talk about. Plus, as I said, I like to have characters that translate as pre-WoW units.

I wanted to ask this question too so I PM'd Xelnath (official warlock lead designer that recently resigned) on these forums. I wont copy paste his response since I feel bad about typing what he wrote in a personal message but he basically confirmed exactly what it says in their official cannon explanation: A mage that turned to demonic fire manipulation and void energies. A rule of thumb is any class that starts turning to fel magic is technically a warlock just as any class that uses necromancy is a necromancer. Don't believe me if you want but if you want an a more official answer PM Xelnath on mmo champion, I'm not sure if you will get a response but he was quick to reply to me when he was more active. So I would say either fit and if RP is your game you could rp as both. Personally I prefer to play as a destruction warlock since they have their primary weapons, the fire magic and the demonic element. Also since the Sunwell's restoration blood elf mages, magisters or blood elves in general wont go near fel (excluding the warlocks ofcourse) and are probably frowned upon heavily if they were to. You can see cannon lore to back this up said by both Rommath and Aethas in current quest chains.

Also Terin there is no need to make these threads on the forums every other day on a different alt, you will always get the same replies each time.

[checking facts]

This is just the same problem someone willing to play a ranger faces in WoW: he must make a Hunter, and he can't go petless. But in-lore, hunters with pets are the exception, not the rule. (And the Warcraft 3 Beastmaster problem... you may make a Fury Warrior for the dual wield melee or a Hunter for the pets, but you can't have a dual-wielding warrior with pets)

actually, rangers are no big deal. they are very "out in the wild", and the dark rangers in hillsbrad all have pets, so it's not really a stretch to imagine a ranger with a pet.

it's the "sniper" RPers who suffer from the obligatory pet syndrome lol

[Felarion]

I think blasted lands questline shed some light on it. Blood Magic requires sacrafice of life energy to be used, and sacrafices are warlock thing. Also in 5.2 warlock quest line there is line that sacrifices are deamons-favorite kind of "spells", and warlock is also build around that. Another thing is drain-spells. If i remeber correctly in wc3 blood mage got "drain-mana", same spell that warlock had in world of warcraft. Playing with fel energy is also blood mage thing, so do warlocks. So imo blood mage is way closer to warlock than to mage.

[Deleted]

Fel magic is to take living things and convert it to magic. It is unclear if blood magic is something the WC3 Blood Mage used but it is clear that turning living things into magic ie blood into magic is exactly what a warlock does.

[Rivellana]

We don't like necro threads here because people start replying to the posts before the necro like they're relevant to the current time or the people who posted years ago are even still around.

I understand that you have a topic you want to discuss and the question could be considered "timeless", however, I'm going to have to ask that if you want to discuss something like this that you make a new, current discussion thread on the topic and not necro your own four year old thread.

Thanks.