question about a druid tank

[arel00]

emm, a quick question:
is pala tank better then a druid tank atm ?

Yes. No. Maybe.

The question is overall pointless. It depends on the fight, both tanks have their strengths and weaknesses. I play them both at HM level, and it really depends on the specific fight/role.

[Sunshine]

ye i am sure the other tanks will do it. cos they are tanking it as well lol.

You never have a fight where you're the only tank on a boss? What fights are you doing?

[jibaikia]

algaron(10 man) .. pala tank and me. I asked him and he told me that he put it up all the time.. so np.

I just wanna know after all the refine ... am i qualify to tank algaron 10 or togc 10 or maybe alittle togc 25 ?
here is my armory:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ion&n=Jibaikia

42867HP
29219 armor
39.82 dodge
42.49 crit
5994 ap
21 exp
176 hit

[Ghost-Flight]

algaron(10 man) .. pala tank and me. I asked him and he told me that he put it up all the time.. so np.

Im pretty sure pallys dont have a demoralizing shout of sorts unless they are specced into vindication (Which I havent seen oftin), and thats a bad habit to get into.

[Sunshine]

Edit: just to clarify, my arguments here pertain to 3/3 infected wounds, not 5/5 feral aggression (which might be nice in extreme cases, but most definitely is not required).

algaron(10 man) .. pala tank and me. I asked him and he told me that he put it up all the time.. so np.

And that's the only fight you tank? That's well and good for algalon, where you have 2 tanks on him all the time... although, when we do it, whoever's not tanking at the moment is wrangling constellations, so there would be breaks in uptime.

If you move on to ToGC, and you're tanking a worm alone, who's going to put it up then? What about when you're doing Jaraxxus, and one tank is on Jaraxxus himself while the other is wrangling adds? Or on anub when someone's on adds and someone's on anub?

Sure, in any of these cases, the adds tank can put the debuff on the boss by switching targets and taking the focus off of adds for a seconds. But why complicate things? Is it really that important to have both imp mangle and MSS? They're really not worth it; you're just fine with one or the other.

Plus, paladins can only keep the attack speed debuff on a single target. If you have different targets (e.g., worms, or twins if you use two tanks), it's not going to be up on both.

Im pretty sure pallys dont have a demoralizing shout of sorts unless they are specced into vindication (Which I havent seen oftin), and thats a bad habit to get into.

I can't make sweeping generalizations, but our paladin tank does have vindication. But I'm talking about infected wounds here.... paladin tanks also have this, but it requires them to change focus from any other job they're doing, and they can keep it up on one mob at a time.

[Syph]

I personally wouldnt advise speccing 5/5 Feral Aggression when you're making a relatively fresh start into 10/25ToC-HC. You'll likely be sacrificing some threat in exchange of avoidance/survivability which (depending on the quality of your raids DPSers) could result in an overall lack of TPS... Taking for example 3/3 Improved Mangle could compensate for some TPS loss due to gear - additionally it grants you with a slightly higher chance of proccing Savage Defense

[Leafre]

No trolling really, but I'm wondering how could you not decide yourself you are okay or not in an instance. As a tank you should be the one, who knows the limits of your raid, because you will be the one in the first line of fights.

Anyway, your HP, avoidance and mitigation ub is okay. If you don't have survival problems, you can spec for threat talents, like Imp. Mangle, Imp. Shapeshifter, else stick to Infected Wounds. It's all about your playstyle, raid composition and raid members.

[Xerganor]

I personally wouldnt advise speccing 5/5 Feral Aggression when you're making a relatively fresh start into 10/25ToC-HC. You'll likely be sacrificing some threat in exchange of avoidance/survivability

So, in your opinion, a tank shouldn't sacrifice threat for survivability?

...5/5 feral aggression (which might be nice in extreme cases, but most definitely is not required)

With 5/5 feral aggression, you receive 4-5% less boss melee damage. It might not be required for hard modes, but I consider taking 4+% less damage more important than doing 4% more damage through those five talent points in master shapeshifter.

A quote from WoWHead.com:
"According to this Maexxna Beast Lore test, a fully talented roar reduces top end boss melee damage by an additional 3.9% and low end boss melee damage by an additional 5.5% relative to an untalended demo roar.
A fully talented roar reduces top end boss melee damage by 12.4% and low end boss melee damage by 17%.
A non talented roar reduces top by 8.9% and low by 12.2%."

[Boèndal]

Im pretty sure pallys dont have a demoralizing shout of sorts unless they are specced into vindication (Which I havent seen oftin), and thats a bad habit to get into.

That's really not true. The actual cookie cuter prot paladin spec is 0.53.18 with some points to move where vindication is one of the best utility talents you have access to. Using 2 points to gain the full benefit compared to droods and warriors which have to use 5 each.

btt you really have to make sure that there is an attack speed and AP debuff if you are doing hardmodes or progress raids.

[Sunshine]

With 5/5 feral aggression, you receive 4-5% less boss melee damage. It might not be required for hard modes, but I consider taking 4+% less damage more important than doing 4% more damage through those five talent points in master shapeshifter.

In hard modes is where you want it, if you're going to use it. I'm not saying it's not good -- 5% less melee damage is certainly nice to have. I do believe that it's the least of our tanking talents, point for point, however. If you need the threat boost of either imp mangle or MSS, imp demo is the best place to take points out.

I've seen many perfectly viable tank specs without feral aggression. I haven't seen many viable tank specs without infected wounds. For a compromise between the OP's spec (both threat talents, neither mitigation talent) and a more mitigation-oriented build, taking IW and not FA seems reasonable. Remember, the OP is tanking 10-man hardmodes, not heroic anub 25.

Don't forget that it isn't just our job to survive -- it's to hold threat while doing so. It's possible to hold threat without both MSS & imp mangle; it's also possible to survive without both FA & IW. Somewhere between the two is a good compromise.

[Unionflip]

Just a small tip NEVER EVER gem for defense. With your talents your already capped. agility and stam.

I personally use http://eu.wowarmory.com/talent-calc....00000000000000
for tanking, 2 points left over depending if you have other people specing into imp Motw.

you shouldn't have any rage problems with imp mangle up.

[razisgosu]

Just a small tip NEVER EVER gem for defense. With your talents your already capped. agility and stam.

I personally use http://eu.wowarmory.com/talent-calc....00000000000000
for tanking, 2 points left over depending if you have other people specing into imp Motw.

you shouldn't have any rage problems with imp mangle up.

you should be specced into imp motw for the 2% stam and agility and strength no matter what kind of tank you are. i personally use this. http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0ZEGG...zVkbA0z:0znzMc

[getefix]

Taking for example 3/3 Improved Mangle could compensate for some TPS loss due to gear - additionally it grants you with a slightly higher chance of proccing Savage Defense

No it does not, unless you sit and wait for mangle to come off cooldown without filling that extra GCD with an ability (swipe probably). You either swipe or you mangle and they both proc SD.

I also agree with Sunshine. Get IW for yourself. It's something that every tank should have. You can't base your spec around 1 fight.

[Syph]

No it does not, unless you sit and wait for mangle to come off cooldown without filling that extra GCD with an ability (swipe probably). You either swipe or you mangle and they both proc SD.

Hmm I guess its time for me to re-educate myself on the threat specifics.. Was always under the impression that picking 3/3 Imp. Mangle would be beneficial when struggling with threat :s

And as for my initial comment regarding 5/5 FA not being a talent I'd pick when starting out 10hc; Sunshine already explained it a lot better then I could've done I do have to admit that I estimated 5/5 FA to reduce damage by an extra 2% max or so, didnt realize its closer to 4-5%, good to know I guess

[jibaikia]

now i have taken 3 point out of IM and get IW. lets hope that i wont have any treat problem now lol

[getefix]

Hmm I guess its time for me to re-educate myself on the threat specifics.. Was always under the impression that picking 3/3 Imp. Mangle would be beneficial when struggling with threat :s

And as for my initial comment regarding 5/5 FA not being a talent I'd pick when starting out 10hc; Sunshine already explained it a lot better then I could've done I do have to admit that I estimated 5/5 FA to reduce damage by an extra 2% max or so, didnt realize its closer to 4-5%, good to know I guess

I meant you don't get more Savage Defense procs from imp mangle. As for threat, you may get more chances to use an ability that deals a lot of threat, but MSS offers more threat on every attack (including maul). For AoE TPS it's wonderful Imp Mangle won't help you on aoe threat.

[Syph]

I meant you don't get more Savage Defense procs from imp mangle. As for threat, you may get more chances to use an ability that deals a lot of threat, but MSS offers more threat on every attack (including maul). For AoE TPS it's wonderful Imp Mangle won't help you on aoe threat.

Ah ok, I myself never really have any AoE threat problems - but it might just be due to usually having a tricks of the trade up at those times Come 3.3 and the lovely 20% increased swipe dmg from 2/4 set I dont see aoe threat becoming an issue in the near future either - but again it differs for everyone I guess

[bavarcarus]

Just a small tip NEVER EVER gem for defense. With your talents your already capped. agility and stam.

I personally use http://eu.wowarmory.com/talent-calc....00000000000000
for tanking, 2 points left over depending if you have other people specing into imp Motw.

you shouldn't have any rage problems with imp mangle up.

Depending on your gear level, the defence/stm gem is a good way to fill a yellow slot if you want the socket bonus. I believe that gear level is rather high though.