CS Glyph Change Suggestion

[Kaladarofsenjin]

Explain how this is overpowered compared to other debuffs like a mage's Slow or a Shaman's frost shock and earth shock.

All right here goes. It's not like slow because mages have to go 41 points into arcane to get that move. So one glyph for us should have a snare that,from the way you seem to describe it, would either be a stacking magical debuff(dispellable) OR(i assume this is how you would want it) And undispellable snare that would have virtually no DR since it was a stacking move. And a shaman using frost shock or earthshock... Most resto shaman I have seen just try to interupt a clutch heal...Eleshaman all use flame shock(or they are generally that terrible) and Enh may use frost shock. But it is a single stack dispellable debuff. And outside of wolves/shamanisticrage. Most Enhshaman die after their only cooldowns are gone. Again this is also playing off my previous post saying "Play with classes that compliment your skills."

[ScatteredBWL]

I like the differant CS glyph suggestions inturn to my own the 50% reduction just like heart strike. To the 5% stacking 5 times is ok but if you can't stick on your target long enough to get 5 stacks it's kind of nulified I still stick by my Heart Strike glyph clone to Crusader Strike.

[ScatteredBWL]

All right here goes. It's not like slow because mages have to go 41 points into arcane to get that move. So one glyph for us should have a snare that,from the way you seem to describe it, would either be a stacking magical debuff(dispellable) OR(i assume this is how you would want it) And undispellable snare that would have virtually no DR since it was a stacking move. And a shaman using frost shock or earthshock... Most resto shaman I have seen just try to interupt a clutch heal...Eleshaman all use flame shock(or they are generally that terrible) and Enh may use frost shock. But it is a single stack dispellable debuff. And outside of wolves/shamanisticrage. Most Enhshaman die after their only cooldowns are gone. Again this is also playing off my previous post saying "Play with classes that compliment your skills."


Your point is kind of nulifed concerning the mage slow thing considering we have to go just as deep into ret to get crusader strike but I see where you're coming from on the other sense of your reply and I would want a dispellable debuff a red from a ret seems a bit ridiculous but not a stacking one a clone of heart strike glyph is best way to go if you're going to make this change at all. Maybe not 50% but the basic concept still doesn't need damage reduction or attack speed reduction none of that just movement speed.

[Fadeddeath]

No.

Paladins don't need a snare. We have lots of tools to keep in range - once we get there - and a snare helps other classes as well, leadign to potential balance issues.

No...what Paladins need, especially in PvP, is a viable gap closer.

EJL

I agree with this one. When they took rocket boots away you guys were F'd in the A.

[pcrbaker]

Explaining this proposed glyph's overpoweredness is pretty simple. The two abilities that you are relating too, Slow and Frost Shock, are skills learned by those classes through leveling or talents. Glyphs are not meant to be as strong as a skill or talent. They are enhancers, not huge buffs. You are suggesting rolling Thunderclap and Hamstring as side effects for an ability via a glyph. Do you see where I am coming from?

I do see that and I agree with you that a glyph should not be as powerful as a learned spell or skill.

I was merely suggesting this glyph would buff crusader strike into something that wouldn't be crazy OP by requiring a 5 stack...and also the debuff wouldn't be as strong as other abilities such as Slow, etc. I still don't see a 25% speed debuff as being as strong as Slow. Unless I'm mistaken, the current speed debuff for that spell is 50% and earth shock reduces attack speed by 10% (up to 20% with 2 talents). The numbers themselves could be played with.

-edited: Slow:Reduces target's movement speed by 60%, increases the time between ranged attacks by 60% and increases casting time by 30%. Lasts 15 sec.

[zcks]

Had another idea for ways they could help us not be so gibbed vs casters and healers.
Why not change vindication a bit. make it stack 3-4x instead of being there as a single application debuff, then have it reduce spell power by 10-15% (when stacked at max) in addition to the ap debuff.
It wouldn't be op really it's completely dispellable.

They could even reason for it by saying its to reduce the damage done to us and our allies.

[Raptorg]

Nobody pointed out the blatant walls of text?

My mind.. is blown.

[ScatteredBWL]

zcks I LIKE THAT, Vindication being a stackable debuff and reducing spell power by a certain % and alongside AP, it wouldn't change anything vs melee which in most cases we are already at every advantage except peeling and secondly it would improve us vs casters / healers which is where a major problem lies so yea I really like that alot and that ontop of a small snare we would be GG imho for arena.

[Kaladarofsenjin]

Your point is kind of nulifed concerning the mage slow thing considering we have to go just as deep into ret to get crusader strike but I see where you're coming from on the other sense of your reply and I would want a dispellable debuff a red from a ret seems a bit ridiculous but not a stacking one a clone of heart strike glyph is best way to go if you're going to make this change at all. Maybe not 50% but the basic concept still doesn't need damage reduction or attack speed reduction none of that just movement speed.

My point is I am happy with crusader strike as it is for the 41 points I spend to get it . Fact is you can sit here posting all day about how ret "needs a snare" but we don't.

A distance closer would be nice.

A short cooldown interupt would be AMAZING. Like adding something onto a deep ret talent making Hand of Reckoning an interupt.

But as said before Blizz will only respond to our quests saying this is mainly QQ from bg'rs or duelers in 1v1 situations. None of the ideas here posted have been really bad ideas. They are all decent or reasonable suggestions.

But they have ALL BEEN MADE BEFORE, and in turn denied. The Crusader Strike MS almost went to the PTR...but was pulled pretty quickly after seeing how good we got with an MS.

I am not saying don't try to think of new ideas to help us. But saying "I want a snare that's dispellable, a charge and a rogue's kick." Will probably never get them to us. If anything it will only get a response from blizz saying "Do pvp with those classes then."

Nobody pointed out the blatant walls of text?

Happy troll?

[KingKrab]

Or could be something else a little less overpowered like so:

Glyph of Crusader Strike: Redesigned - Your Crusader Strike now also reduces your target's movement speed by 5% and attack speed by 1% for 10 seconds and stacks 5 times.

do you play ret?
how on earth do you propose we get off 5 crusader strikes?
this is ok vs melee but dumb
to close the gap you must first close the gap

[pcrbaker]

Had another idea for ways they could help us not be so gibbed vs casters and healers.
Why not change vindication a bit. make it stack 3-4x instead of being there as a single application debuff, then have it reduce spell power by 10-15% (when stacked at max) in addition to the ap debuff.
It wouldn't be op really it's completely dispellable.

They could even reason for it by saying its to reduce the damage done to us and our allies.

I'm liking this too. It doesn't help against kiters though - perhaps a glyph to go with it that would add a speed debuff?

[pcrbaker]

do you play ret?
how on earth do you propose we get off 5 crusader strikes?
this is ok vs melee but dumb
to close the gap you must first close the gap

Yeah I do play ret. I don't have a problem getting to a person with HoF, etc, but staying on them is my problem.

[Beatboxvin05]

Or could be something else a little less overpowered like so:

Glyph of Crusader Strike: Redesigned - Your Crusader Strike now also reduces your target's movement speed by 5% and attack speed by 1% for 10 seconds and stacks 5 times.

Problem with this is were trying to figure out a way to snare ranged, by having 1 CS hit proc 5% movement speed is doing nothing considering by the time CS is back up ranged is usually "ranged" again...thus doing almost nothing. While I agree if CS was like Heart Strike's glyph it would be somewhat overpowered, having one CS hit only reduce their movement speed by 5% is lacking what were trying to get to.

I really like the vindication change mentioned above, helps us with casters while doing nothing to melee targets

[ScatteredBWL]

I dunno concerning the distance closer thing I personaly don't have MUCH of a problem getting on someone with freedom and pent if it's neccessary but sticking on them after freedom is down is the problem a distance closer would be nice but I think it would be a bit too OP considering the fact we have freedom. I still think a nice snare would be a good balance.



PS I absolutely 110% love that vindication idea. Doesn't change anything vs melee which we already are like almost perfect at and gives us a much better chance and handling healers and casters.

5* to the guy with the Vindication idea.

[Beatboxvin05]

5* to the guy with the Vindication idea.

/Agreed zcks good thinking.

[ScatteredBWL]

/bump Cmon keep it coming guys.

[Porte]

In the end if they wanted to fix us for pvp they would need to

#2 give us some form a of small snare (possibly get rid of pursuit of justice then give judgment of justice a 25% snare & give repentance a snare effect when it ends or is broken)

Rogues get Fleet Footed (20% movement speed)+crippling poison(70% snare). Why the fuck can't pallys get a 50% snare?

[Beatboxvin05]

Rogues get Fleet Footed (20% movement speed)+crippling poison(70% snare). Why the fuck can't pallys get a 50% snare?

Were trying to figure out a way where its not going to be overpowered, we cant just go around comparing ourselves to other classes and QQing because we dont have the same abilities.

[zcks]

Ok I can see where getting crusader strike up 5 times would be a bitch to do.

How about getting rid of pursuit of justice (really its not worth the 2 points if we get a half decent snare) For a snare they could let crusader strike apply a 25-30% single application movement speed debuff for the next 8 seconds.

They could also apply a small 20-30% snare (lasting 5 or so seconds) onto repentance when it breaks or ends

Here's my idea for the talent spell to replace pursuit of justice. DIVINE SILENCE : interrupts the targets spell casting & locks them out of that school for the next 3 seconds. (has a mana cost of 300 with current lvls & a 15 second cool down so it cant be used all the time & is low enough in the tree for other specs to get it).

[Porte]

Were trying to figure out a way where its not going to be overpowered, we cant just go around comparing ourselves to other classes and QQing because we dont have the same abilities.

The reasoning given for pallys not having a snare is poj. Other classes have this, why is it op for a pally too? That's the reason for the comparison.