Shaman tank?

[Kduruh]

First of all I would like to ask people not to come here trolling or arguing this is a stupid idea, etc... if you don't agree or like this idea please keep it to your self what i'm intrested is the oppinions of people that support this in some way :P

I remember when i was leveling my shaman up, going to SM and I could be the tank, I could be the healer and still one of the DPSers all at the same time, I was used to playing warlock which only has 1 speccific role so this felt great! Well obviously at a high level it's absurd to do all these simultaneously but well... druids have 4 possible roles so I don't see why shamans can't have the same, there are traces of tanking talents on the enhancement build, Toughness used to award 10% armor and now awards stamina instead, anticipation reduces the chance to dodge and spirit weapons despite reducing our threat, it gives us the ability to parry.

My idea is that with the upcoming expansion some of these talents could be tunned and some could be added and create a viable tanking mechanic and hopefully slightly different from all other existing tanking mechanics. Now here's some examples:

Frost shock causes a high ammount of threat and maybe tweaking elemental weapons or frozen power there could be a mechanic that if your MH was enchanted with frostbrand this would cause the chilled target to shatter and increasing threat on that target, also a spell could be added as a talent, that would award the shaman some sort of defence, this would be required to be kept up all the times with maelstrom weapon procs for example, in terms of defensive habilities like last stand, something could be done with shamanistic rage it would be fun to have a spec working similar to enhancement mostly on very fast cooldowns but both for generating threat and keeping some defences up. Some other defenses or even threat could be generated through a new shield spell, much like Death Knights' bone armor.

There are just some few very ruff ideas but I would love to see some other Ideas anyone else might be intrested in sharing.

Oh, yes... I know this isn't the official wow forum so right now the goal for this post is just some brainstorming if you would like to call it that.

PS: apologies for possible bad wording, I'm having some trouble with my web browser that doesn't allow me to see what I'm typing very clearly...

[noxxous]

no

[fabian]

no

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvDLBom4bY0

On a more related noted, yes it is possible, the most notable Shaman tank is sharicasmi

Just look at the vids he has done and be amazed at what you can shamans can tank with an excellent raid.

[Deleted]

Use the search function. There is litterly hundreds of posts on this.
Its basically pointless and very hard to do unless you have constant misdirects.

[frownface2000]

The challenge with tanking is a shaman is making sure u generate enough threat (NO Spirit Weapons) and getting crit capped. Usually you need the Defense rating on Plate gear to reach the crit cap of 540 def rating.
I'm also not sure how Sharicasmi can tank so effectively since hsi armory only puts him at 440 def rating.

[Lokigar]

Ever notice Earthen Power? Look how far it is in the Enhancement tree compared to other tanking classes/specs. Blizz had removed the talents that 'could' allow shaman to tank on a regular basis, sadly. Improved Block which used to be a 0/5 T1 talent that was removed. Toughness and Anticipation used to be different, and allowed more migitation. Oddly enough Blizz still hasn't removed the threat component from Frost Shock.

[Jàckyòz]

Use the search function. There is litterly hundreds of posts on this.
Its basically pointless and very hard to do unless you have constant misdirects.

agreeing, an hey earr ill be back in WoW soon m8

[Spurlij]

Shaman tanks would never be possible because in Cataclysm, Blizzard is doing away with the majority of passive abilities and giving classes more of some stats the farther they go into a tree. Because of this, enhancement would have to award tanking stats the deeper you go into it, thus making it a purely tanking tree instead of a hybrid tank/dps tree. I'm sure we would hear all types of complaining if enhancement was no longer available as dps.

[Gadix]

The challenge with tanking is a shaman is making sure u generate enough threat (NO Spirit Weapons) and getting crit capped. Usually you need the Defense rating on Plate gear to reach the crit cap of 540 def rating.
I'm also not sure how Sharicasmi can tank so effectively since hsi armory only puts him at 440 def rating.

Resilience also reduces the chance to be crit. 540 defense reduces your chance to be crit by 5.6%. Saricasmi has 1.68% from defense and 4.82% from resilience, so he's actually considerably over the crit cap.

[sharicasmi]

haman tanks would never be possible because in Cataclysm, Blizzard is doing away with the majority of passive abilities and giving classes more of some stats the farther they go into a tree. Because of this, enhancement would have to award tanking stats the deeper you go into it, thus making it a purely tanking tree instead of a hybrid tank/dps tree. I'm sure we would hear all types of complaining if enhancement was no longer available as dps.

Not really you've obviously never grouped with a feral druid. IMO they should just bring back old rockbiter and make it so spirit weapons doubles threat when rockbiter is active (or just make spirit weapons a strictly dps talent +5% haste and make parry a baseline skill). Make it so rockbiter gives 12% increased chance to proc static shock and maelstrom weapon to make high speed caster weapons pheasable for us.

Shaman are the worst raid tank in the game, though they CAN be used for tanking (and notably provide superior tanking to death knights and warriors in certain situations). The only thing that make a shaman tank different from a traditional tank is the obvious lack of avoidance, hp and threat. It's simply a hobby tank for heroics or 10mans when your bored of your other tanks (or of course, your other tanks are already saved, we're stuck with the shaman). When compared to my warrior tank with 39.9k hp, 25k armor 55% avoidance w/o block, shaman often perform better in heroics and 10mans, simply because Maelstrom weapon procs 5 5k-9k heals per minute, and being able to 'time' your blocks with stoneclaw absorbs really gives the player some customizable mitigation . When put up to my druid tank with 42.4k hp 29k armor and 45% avoidance, the druid is alot better for raiding obviously. Druids just have superior health and armor, making it an excellent tank for 25s and hard modes, where my shaman has alot better self healing abilities and cooldowns (shamanistic rage>barkskin and feral spirit>frenzied rejuvination).

Threat isn't so much an issue really, as long as one brings enough rogues you can make a priest tank KT 25. I only bring my wifes tricks of the trade glyphed rogue when i do 10mans (and some dps classes have to watch their threat for about 10 seconds.) A tricks glyphed rogue gives you a 3rd of their threat, where a hunter would only give you 5% of their threat. Who ends up tanking is not about how much threat you can produce as a tank, its about who the RAID wants to have tanking for them. In the end the 'quality' of your tank is determined by how well you survive the big hits and manage your cooldowns.
thanks fer posting folk

These can all be browsed in one window through my youtube site
http://www.youtube.com/user/sharicasmi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPJpcqCC0SE
Demon lord Jaraxxis (Toc 10)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Dddx8bSSM
Val'kyr Twins (ToC 10)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOCyKbOCmAg
Anub'arak (ToC 10)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PrUdlvLc-8
Onyxia 10man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk04kRS0I4M
Vault of Archavon (3.2.2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Gc-jVWTzk
3manning Brewfest boss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dZOaPrCuPw
Heroic 5man Trial of the Champion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNEj9LGn2og
Ignis the Furnace master (clean shot)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGlXlVIyUHE
Freya and conservatory trash (Ulduar 10)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sxk3KpSk7g
How to tank enhance feat. Sharicasmi pt2 (watch part 1 first)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCH5w2JBU58
First attempt at Ignis the Furnace Master (Ulduar 10)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvDLBom4bY0
All shaman os 10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJeLdCuX9ek
OS 10man 1 drake up (and a 3drake wipe)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m06rCaZuPc
Offtanking Naxx25 Anub'arak, Kel'Thuzad, and Patchwerk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftTCIqeaeLk
Vault of Archavon 10man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItqOkdtry4c
Eye of Eternity 10man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMqqV7LXcEk
Naxx 10 Four horsemen, Sapphiron and Kel'Thuzad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juw15ipY7do
Naxx 10 Maexxna, Gothik, Grobbulus and Thaddius

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLHLWVQkufk
Naxx 10 Heigan the Unclean, Loathweb, and offtanking Patchwerk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPhjSVOrfKQ
^Heroic Nexus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNtICWv6jxQ
^Heroic Occulis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxRMLoIrEPs
^Heroic Ahn'Kahet: Old Kingdom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQjrGawXdpA
^Heroic COT strathholme timed run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7FjScvQSJ0
^Heroic Azjol-Nerub
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFF_zcqPwHM
^Heroic Gun'drak and How to tank enhance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-0quttuOf4
^Heroic Utgarde Pinnacle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4v7ZQ9RfBA
^Heroic Violet Hold
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98o0XYP5J-U
^Heroic Drak Tharon Keep
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KN6eLfuUQk
^Heroic Halls of Lightning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDZ0ueF0E9w
^Heroic Halls of Stone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msiGxbxAEpM
^Heroic Utgarde Keep

[Kduruh]

did you people even read the inicial post? i'm not asking if it's possible for a shaman to tank and tips on how to do it... the objective is getting some ideas that could be implemented to make it a viable spec...

[H3ll]

did you people even read the inicial post? i'm not asking if it's possible for a shaman to tank and tips on how to do it... the objective is getting some ideas that could be implemented to make it a viable spec...

sharicasmi is just a shameless self promoter

[Spurlij]

did you people even read the inicial post? i'm not asking if it's possible for a shaman to tank and tips on how to do it... the objective is getting some ideas that could be implemented to make it a viable spec...

GIVE EM BEAR FORM.

[Deralte]

sharicasmi you are my hero.

[Kuismar]

I'll explain very simply why they went with Enh going to a dps spec instead of tanking. If in Tbc they didn't give Horde Paladins and Alliance Shaman then I could say they probably would have kept the tanking tree alive. But with each faction now having Paladins there was no point anymore and the Shaman tanking tree died.

/thread

[Ushra]

At the OP.

Basically and this was quoted by Blizzard (don't make me look for the quote), but basically when Shamans were initially introduced into the game (We're talking Horde here) they were meant to be Tanks. If you look at the tooltip for "Frost Shock" it says "...... This ability causes a lot of threat". However, Blizzard have completely shut down on the Shaman Tank idea, they just didn't follow through on it.

If you're not meant to be a Tank these days, you won't be a Tank. A few patches back they buffed the amount of Threat Tanks were producing and therefore it wasn't directed at Shamans. Sharicasmi is constantly having MD's, CDs, etc on him just to be able to Tank the boss. 22K Armor (read his youtube channel info) is quite bad and although he can output a fair bit of DPS and self-healing, there's no way a viable "tank" spec exists for Shamans at the moment.

Of course, a Shaman could tank a Heroic or something but then again so could anyone....

[Condriano]

Resilience also reduces the chance to be crit. 540 defense reduces your chance to be crit by 5.6%. Saricasmi has 1.68% from defense and 4.82% from resilience, so he's actually considerably over the crit cap.

Fail. Resilience reduces the chance to be crit by players, not by mobs.

[Highmitsu]

Fail. Resilience reduces the chance to be crit by players, not by mobs.

And mobs. They kept that part for PVE.

[Crazhr]

did you people even read the inicial post? i'm not asking if it's possible for a shaman to tank and tips on how to do it... the objective is getting some ideas that could be implemented to make it a viable spec...

sharicasmi is just a shameless self promoter

IMO they should just bring back old rockbiter and make it so spirit weapons doubles threat when rockbiter is active (or just make spirit weapons a strictly dps talent +5% haste and make parry a baseline skill). Make it so rockbiter gives 12% increased chance to proc static shock and maelstrom weapon to make high speed caster weapons pheasable for us.

As far as it was you that did not read what he wrote, but just saw the huge amount of links, he did point out what he thought would fix it.

[Azyoulike]

did you people even read the inicial post? i'm not asking if it's possible for a shaman to tank and tips on how to do it... the objective is getting some ideas that could be implemented to make it a viable spec...

Why when blizz have declared that they have no intention of supporting it? Along with viable Holy priest dps or 2H-enhance.

Making the tree tanking viable is pretty easy really. Just throw in enough mitigation to make up for mail instead of plate add some taunts, add a threat enhancing imbue. Easy.

The problem is what would that do for enhance PvP? Suddenly enhance would be in the same position as DKs - a tank capable class dealing significant amounts of ranged magic damage.

Blizz need to rebalance another class doing that like they need a hole in the head.

Won't .. Ever .. Happen

Fail. Resilience reduces the chance to be crit by players, not by mobs.

Nope - wrong, it reduces all crit chances. This is how feral druids were able to solo tank thorim through unbalancing strikes. The flat damage mitigation effect is player only though - l2wiki before you flame.