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  1. #1

    Speed Boost for ret (late night idea)

    Whilst I try to no avail to sleep I started thinking about paladin PVP.

    An idea came to me (after throwing out some pretty bad ones) to modify Fanaticism.

    Fanaticism:
    Increases the critical strike chance of all Seals and Judgements that are capable of a critical hit by %, and reduces threat caused by all actions by % except when under the effects of Righteous Fury. In addition whenever Judgement of Justice fades from a target the effects of Pursuit of Justice are increased by %X (150 maybe?) for 5 seconds. (Not useable more than once every 30 seconds)


    This would activate if Judge of Justice was replaced by the paladin with another judge, dispelled, or if the target dies.

    My intention with this was to make choosing which judgment you use when more relevant. For example in PvE when you know that there is a portion of the fight where you need to move between a boss and adds you can have justice waiting on the boss and then switch to light at the last second to get your speed boost over to the adds...or vice-versa. I can't see this helping all that much with keeping up stacks of vengeance due to the 30 sec internal CD, but it can help depending on the situation.

    or in PVP when fighting a mage you try to get justice on him right after he comes out of ice block, so when he blinks you gain the speed boost. (Should the speed boost be dispellable? Maybe, but if it were spell stolen it would do a mage no good since it increases the effect of a paladin only talent)

    I just thought this judge was boring so here's my bad attempt at a secondary effect to it.
    (quick note on the %150 increase...that nets to having a %37.5 speed increase above a normal player speed..idk what other sprints are but that number feels about right.)



    On a side note, if you are not a fan of the speed boost (I like it becuase it has pvp and pve bonuses), What are your thoughts on the concept of an additional effect when Judge of Justice fades on a target?

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans zcks's Avatar
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    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    I like the idea of making judgments more of a choice in what you give in any given situation but the main problem retribution has is that pursuit of justice doesn't = shit when you are under the effects of cc that hand of freedom or cleanse won't get rid of Ie fear, sheep etc because the enemy can still run at normal or higher run speed to create distance.

    What ret really needs is a ranged snare, maybe something similar to frost shock in the fact that causes high threat has a short cooldown & can be dispelled.
    Maybe something like BURDEN OF GUILT The paladin unleashes the burden of guilt onto the targeted enemy making them feel the consequences of their actions slowing their movement speed by 35% for 6-10 seconds, has a 12 second cooldown, range of 20 yards, causes high threat and can be dispelled.
    The way balancing for WOW PVP works is allot like American politics.
    1: Be lazy & ignore problems till the yelling is so loud your cant concentrate.
    2: Refuse to do the things you have Said need to be done, then make up reasons why they cannot be done.
    3: Lay the blame for problems on someone else even when it's your fault because you did all of the above.

  3. #3

    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    holy fuck that would be op.

    priest: fear, cleanse joj, OH SHI, dead
    paladin: eat fear (assume this speed boost would break cc), get near priest, stun, faceroll

  4. #4

    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    Quote Originally Posted by Starstruk
    holy fuck that would be op.

    priest: fear, cleanse joj, OH SHI, dead
    paladin: eat fear (assume this speed boost would break cc), get near priest, stun, faceroll
    WOW! This priest must have like 15k health no resil and suck, to die in 1 HOJ. And btw he also has trinket.

  5. #5

    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kawasaki.gdm
    WOW! This priest must have like 15k health no resil and suck, to die in 1 HOJ. And btw he also has trinket.
    they will usually use the fear when low and trink is blown to offer relief , so they got no escape mechanism pretty much because say if they need to cleanse they will cleanse the joj, break the pally's fear and get rapesauced because the retpally is all up in his face right away.

    Edit: even if they dont die or trink is up or hoj is down. It still is fucked to give rets (capable of decent burst) such a crazy speed boost that could let you run rings around anyone cause they cleansed.

  6. #6

    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    Honestly, I think JoJ is mostly fine, but if they just bumped it up to limit movement speed to 90% instead of 100% that would be nice. Just a little bit more of a slow to give us slightly more of an edge to catch up. I don't think a sprint like-mechanic is really very necessary. Would be cool, but perhaps a bit over the top.

    Right now what I'd like to see more is a better way to defend ourselves against caster burst. Make SS only effect spell damage or something and double its effects. Also, maybe a better way of protecting our freedom from being removed. I hate getting it RNGstolen off and pretty much knowing I'm SOL with 5 stacks of winters chill on me. Nova - Shatter -IMP CS - Game over. Wouldn't be too far out of line to add in a function somewhere fairly deep in Ret talents to make it have 100% dispel resist when cast on yourself, or perhaps have a negative side effect when removed off the Paladin.

  7. #7

    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    I have a paladin and that would be OP, as Akkron said it would be better if JoJ was 90% movement speed or even 95%, somehow they should make SS undispeleable because I'm tired of mages just spamming their one button to the victory (that and getting mana back even if the judgement is absorbed would be nice).

    edit. typo

  8. #8

    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    It's actually quite interesting and I don't think I've seen an idea like this before, but I think it would be hard to actually put into the game. People would have to think quite far in advance as to when they need to judge justice and then sit and wait to cast light again which is kinda hard with a FCFS rotation, if you judge justice too early then you potentially have to rejudge it and then your judgement might not be off cooldown in time (this is from a PvE point of view btw)

    And for PvP I think it would be just as hard to get down to perfection as I normally judge justice on druids and rogues and would then need to wait for it to wear off before I could get the boost to say switch to a healer, also I don't think blink removes justice as it's not really a slow effect, it just caps their speed (Although I never really paid much attention to them as they normally just fall over ) or for the classes we need it against (ranged) it would be hard to actually get into range in the first place to get the judgement off, and since judgement lasts about 10 seconds we would need to plan ahead and judge someone close to us before we could use the boost to get to the range, who by that time might have unleased hell on us (Ele shamans/Destro locks from my experience)

    Nice idea but it would be kinda hard to implement. Hopefully my nitpicking can help you improve it

  9. #9

    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    Quote Originally Posted by Starstruk
    they will usually use the fear when low and trink is blown to offer relief , so they got no escape mechanism pretty much because say if they need to cleanse they will cleanse the joj, break the pally's fear and get rapesauced because the retpally is all up in his face right away.

    Edit: even if they dont die or trink is up or hoj is down. It still is fucked to give rets (capable of decent burst) such a crazy speed boost that could let you run rings around anyone cause they cleansed.
    So dont cleanse! If you know that will not be good cleanse, then dont do it.

    What happens when you dispel a lock unstable afflic? you get fucked! so dont do it.

  10. #10

    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    I've had a couple ideas on the matter.

    One was to just let HoF add another 10-15% run speed, meaning we get more out of it than simply failing to close a gap a lil less.

    Another was to tie in an ability to AW, so that while its up we gain access to a charge-like ability, but can only use it once while its up. More risk-v-reward.

  11. #11
    I am Murloc! Nienniora's Avatar
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    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    Quote Originally Posted by jenseits
    Another was to tie in an ability to AW, so that while its up we gain access to a charge-like ability, but can only use it once while its up. More risk-v-reward.
    maybe if it consume the effect of AW
    but for now too op..

    interrupt on a 15-30 sec, we have enough gap closer (and if you dont have enough hug a damn wall!)

  12. #12

    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    Quote Originally Posted by BDF
    Whilst I try to no avail to sleep I started thinking about paladin PVP.
    First off get a life? Its not normal that you ponder about wow mechanics in bed its a game lighten up.

    2nd of all Paladins (rets in your case) are doing more then well enough in gap closing. SoJ , Repentance and BoF + dispel are more then suitable to close any gap between targets. there is no point if you would have 100% melee up time vs kiting classes and speaking in arena terms (if not don’t throw a fit) you can also use pillars aggressively to lure out melee combat.

    Considering all you better be joking or look up a "HOWZ TO PLAY R3T LIKE TEH REEL PROWS (for dummies)"

    not bad mouthing about opness here just srsly don’t even go there.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Prentice's Avatar
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    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolgreks
    First off get a life? Its not normal that you ponder about wow mechanics in bed its a game lighten up.
    What is the difference between him thinking about WoW at home in bed and you thinking WoW at work while costing your employer money?? Who is more pathetic here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolgreks
    2nd of all Paladins (rets in your case) are doing more then well enough in gap closing. SoJ , Repentance and BoF + dispel are more then suitable to close any gap between targets.
    Yes. Lets blow all of the CC and interupts we have just to close the gap. Sounds like a plan. We finally catch up to our target and once we're there they can cast freely because we can't do a damn thing about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolgreks
    there is no point if you would have 100% melee up time vs kiting classes and speaking in arena terms (if not don’t throw a fit) you can also use pillars aggressively to lure out melee combat.
    You must think that ranged players/healers are retarded. Using pillars aggressively means that the other guy has to come to us. Seriously?? They would probably rather have the match end in a draw after it times out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolgreks
    Considering all you better be joking or look up a "HOWZ TO PLAY R3T LIKE TEH REEL PROWS (for dummies)"

    not bad mouthing about opness here just srsly don’t even go there.
    Keep on trolling.

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  14. #14

    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    Quote Originally Posted by Prentice
    What is the difference between him thinking about WoW at home in bed and you thinking WoW at work while costing your employer money?? Who is more pathetic here?
    I'm my own boss

    Quote Originally Posted by Prentice
    Yes. Lets blow all of the CC and interupts we have just to close the gap. Sounds like a plan. We finally catch up to our target and once we're there they can cast freely because we can't do a damn thing about it.
    Clearly you have no PVP experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Prentice
    You must think that ranged players/healers are retarded. Using pillars aggressively means that the other guy has to come to us. Seriously?? They would probably rather have the match end in a draw after it times out.
    Clearly you have no PVP experience ²

    See what I did there mate?



  15. #15

    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    We need an interrupt on a moderate cooldown far more than a gap closer.

  16. #16

    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopzz
    We need an interrupt on a moderate cooldown far more than a gap closer.
    Now this is a valid point.

  17. #17
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolgreks
    I'm my own boss

    Clearly you have no PVP experience

    Clearly you have no PVP experience ²

    See what I did there mate?


    I agree with Prentice on this one; Clearly you don't understand saving HoJ/Repent for when it is needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopzz
    We need an interrupt on a moderate cooldown far more than a gap closer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nienniora
    interrupt on a 15-30 sec

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Prentice's Avatar
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    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolgreks
    I'm my own boss

    Clearly you have no PVP experience

    Clearly you have no PVP experience ²

    See what I did there mate?


    I would love to be one of the many people that enjoy PvP, specifically arena. With a 20 hour raid week, it can be hard to be available for 3s and 5s teams. This leaves me with the only real option of playing 2s with one of my guildmates. I haven't tried double DPS as ret, but I have heard decent success stories. Using a resto shaman or disc priest as my partner has been very frustrating. A large number of the 2v2 opponents that we faced were either rogue/priest, rogue/mage, or resto druid/warlock. A ret+healer combo has an extremely low chance of winning any of these encounters for two reasons. No gap closer and no real interrupt.

    If you are forced into using your CCs for interrupts, you are pretty screwed. I can't think of any other class that has to do this.

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  19. #19

    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    I agree with Prentice on this one; Clearly you don't understand saving HoJ/Repent for when it is needed.
    Srsly no offence but why am I only getting comments from people that haven't even crossed the 1500 threshold in any bracket (yes QQ bg's).
    I'm speaking from my point of view if someone else with decent experience tells me otherwise il be glad to hear it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prentice
    I would love to be one of the many people that enjoy PvP, specifically arena. With a 20 hour raid week.
    Ok understandable but don't dismiss my posts so lightly knowing that you don't have tons of experience at arena.
    For example you got a 20 hour raid week I got 20 hour arena week. Not posing almighty but your reply was rude sir I had to bring my glove up.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Prentice's Avatar
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    Re: Gap closer for ret (late night idea)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolgreks
    Srsly no offence but why am I only getting comments from people that haven't even crossed the 1500 threshold in any bracket (yes QQ bg's).
    I'm speaking from my point of view if someone else with decent experience tells me otherwise il be glad to hear it.


    Ok understandable but don't dismiss my posts so lightly knowing that you don't have tons of experience at arena.
    For example you got a 20 hour raid week I got 20 hour arena week. Not posing almighty but your reply was rude sir I had to bring my glove up.
    It appears that you took the time to view our armory profiles, but you haven't provided an armory link. I could only assume that the number of arena games that you have played is very high. This is part of my problem with the arena system. Ideal specs/comps can climb from 0 to 1800 pretty fast while winning 75-80% of their games played. Specs/Comps that are less than ideal can get over 2k but they will have to play hundreds of games while winning ~50% of them. The arena rating system is overly generous to players that are willing to play hundreds of games. IMO, a team with a 51% winning percentage shouldn't be rated over 2k just because they played 500 games. You are simply beating the arena point system to death with your persistence and that isn't any fun to me. That's not being successful, just persistent.

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