1. #1

    Totem of Hex vs Totem of Electrifying Winds

    So the other day I was testing my dps for an application to a new guild. I didn't have any recent raid parses as my current guild hasn't raided in god knows how long. Anyways, I went to the heroic dummy in Org and dpsed for 5 minutes using my totems as a timer. I used the same rotation for both trials, and totem of hex came out about 200 dps and 200k damage higher (no use of chain lightning or thunderstorm). I'm wondering if there's a certain threshold where ToEW outdoes Totem of Hex, or even if it is more dependant on the fight than my gear.

    Here's a link to my armory if it helps;

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Watisbldlust

  2. #2

    Re: Totem of Hex vs Totem of Electrifying Winds

    ToEW vastly out performs hex idk what your doing with your rotation, but there is a reason all ele shamans are using it.

  3. #3

    Re: Totem of Hex vs Totem of Electrifying Winds

    Try to maximize haste/crit from gear, you can swap a lot of items for more haste/crit.
    helm/belt/bracer/1 ring/boots/cloak
    most ele at your gear level will have 700 haste passive and 30% crit, so the haste proc totem is superior with
    fast cast and crits.
    make a list of gear that will boost you crit/haste levels, drop all the mp5 restro gear and you have way to much
    hit.
    Its possible to have 700+haste 30%crit, hit cap (with moonkin/sp)and very high sp without using trinket slots for
    haste and losing loads of sp from a better trinket.
    once you swap your gear around and get proper stats for content you are doing, you will notice a big improvment
    in how well the haste totem performs.

  4. #4

    Re: Totem of Hex vs Totem of Electrifying Winds

    I'm not really sure why lacrimo keeps mentioning crit - thats the most useless of the 3 (SP>Haste>>>Crit)

    Doing a 5min test on dummies isnt really a big sample size to base your conclution on - trust the math over your 5 mins test. With all the raidbuffs, longer fights, more movement over all you upcoming raids, ToEW - as Cyrial states vastly superior.

    Load up your gear in the latest version of Rawr and see your potential

  5. #5
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    Re: Totem of Hex vs Totem of Electrifying Winds

    The more haste you get, the more crit you need. This is because of Elemental Oath. Without any extra haste, you get guaranteened Elemental Oath proc from Lava Bursts, but the more you cast other spells than LvB, the more the value of crit increases. The basic idea is that you should have Elemental Oath on all the time. If you run with 1000haste and 20% crit, that won't be happening. Therefore, 500haste and 30% crit is a lot better (just rough numbers to make a point)
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  6. #6

    Re: Totem of Hex vs Totem of Electrifying Winds

    I'm sorry to say suffeli - but that doesnt make sence. Your LvB is 100% crit and will keep your Elemental Oath up. You should be casting LvB as often as its off CD (8 secs) and your EO lasts for 15 secs... that should be close to 100% uptime on EO. And has nothing to do with your crit rating. Not to mention that EO is a non-issue if you have a boomkin in the raid.

  7. #7
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    Re: Totem of Hex vs Totem of Electrifying Winds

    You should re-read the tooltip of Elemental Oath. "In addition, while Clearcasting from Elemental Focus is active, you deal 10% more spelldamage". To keep that buff up, with some napkin math, you need 50% crit to crit with every 2nd spell so all your spells get that 10% bonus.


    EDIT: Let me simplify this a bit to you. I'll make a scenario: Say you got 0% crit and 0% haste, your LvB will still have 100% crit chance due to its nature.
    Time(s) Spell
    0-1.5 LvB, crit. (no bonus)
    1.5-3.5 LB, non crit (10% dmg bonus)
    3.5-5.5 LB, non crit (10% dmg bonus)
    5.5-7.5 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    7.5-9.5 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    9.5-11 LvB, crit (no bonus)

    As you can see, with 0% crit you still get 1/3 (33%) uptime for Clearcasting. Now if your crit stays the same, but you get....lets say a huge number of 50% haste!
    Time(s) Spell
    0-1 LvB, crit. (no bonus)
    1-2 LB, non crit (10% dmg bonus)
    2-3 LB, non crit (10% dmg bonus)
    3-4 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    4-5 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    5-6 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    6-7 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    7-8 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    8-9 LvB, crit (no bonus)

    Now the Clearcasting uptime was 2/9. 1/3 > 2/9. Now, go figure out why haste increases the value of crit.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  8. #8
    Deleted

    Re: Totem of Hex vs Totem of Electrifying Winds

    Quote Originally Posted by suffeli
    The more haste you get, the more crit you need. This is because of Elemental Oath. Without any extra haste, you get guaranteened Elemental Oath proc from Lava Bursts, but the more you cast other spells than LvB, the more the value of crit increases. The basic idea is that you should have Elemental Oath on all the time. If you run with 1000haste and 20% crit, that won't be happening. Therefore, 500haste and 30% crit is a lot better (just rough numbers to make a point)
    You start off right and end up really, really bad.
    It is right that Crit increases in value the more Haste you get. And yes, that's partly because you get more spells in between your LvB. (6 LB's between a LvB means that one more spell can crit, compared to 5 LB's)
    You could also try to put some really weird values into your spreadsheet or whatnot... like 20000 spellpower, or 2000 haste or 2000 crit or something. (just make one stat ridiculously high, keep the rest as is)
    You'll see that each further point in that stat increases your DPS way less than the other stats.

    But what you didn't get, is that Haste also increases in value the more you get of it. AND the EO/EF-combination is NOT a big part of our damage. If you think about it... you'll never get 100% uptime on EF, so it will always be way less than 10% of our damage.
    So even if you get more haste and less crits, it will be a DPS-increase since we scale very, very poorly with crit.
    So yeah, what you wrote about 500haste and 30% crit is false.
    You should be aiming at about 1048haste (+200 from Totem) for the Best in Slot right now, combined with about 29% crit chance. (nobody will ever get that before 3.3, seeing as you'd need 4 trophies from Tribute Chest 25man)

  9. #9

    Re: Totem of Hex vs Totem of Electrifying Winds

    Dont take my word for it suffeli - go read up on EJ about stat values for elemental shamans. Its a shame the TTT isnt there anymore since Bink stoped playing else I could have shown you some mighty fine graphs of haste vs crit vs SP and the scaling of them.

    Trust me (and EJ) when I say SP>haste>>>crit - up to a point of around 3k SP where SP=haste>>crit. Ill add to that you can't get to much haste as it is now - there is no haste cap

  10. #10
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    Re: Totem of Hex vs Totem of Electrifying Winds

    My point was: don't stack any stat as an elemental shaman. Keep the ratings balanced. You shouldn't go for 1000+ haste if your crit rating drops too low, and you shouldnt go for 50% crit if you don't have any haste then. Get them both to about equal ratings and your dps will be higher and less RNG.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  11. #11

    Re: Totem of Hex vs Totem of Electrifying Winds

    ...and my point is - Do Stack SP and Haste (SP>haste>>>crit)... you will get crit along the way - that's just the nature of our spec and itemization. The crit you'll get from stacking SP and haste is all you'll ever need. (Im not talking gimmick fights like Vezax here ofc. In that fight you need to actually stack crit over haste bc you'll be haste capped in no time there)

  12. #12
    Deleted

    Re: Totem of Hex vs Totem of Electrifying Winds

    Quote Originally Posted by Darcam
    ...and my point is - Do Stack SP and Haste (SP>haste>>>crit)
    This = /thread

  13. #13

    Re: Totem of Hex vs Totem of Electrifying Winds

    Quote Originally Posted by suffeli
    You should re-read the tooltip of Elemental Oath. "In addition, while Clearcasting from Elemental Focus is active, you deal 10% more spelldamage". To keep that buff up, with some napkin math, you need 50% crit to crit with every 2nd spell so all your spells get that 10% bonus.


    EDIT: Let me simplify this a bit to you. I'll make a scenario: Say you got 0% crit and 0% haste, your LvB will still have 100% crit chance due to its nature.
    Time(s) Spell
    0-1.5 LvB, crit. (no bonus)
    1.5-3.5 LB, non crit (10% dmg bonus)
    3.5-5.5 LB, non crit (10% dmg bonus)
    5.5-7.5 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    7.5-9.5 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    9.5-11 LvB, crit (no bonus)

    As you can see, with 0% crit you still get 1/3 (33%) uptime for Clearcasting. Now if your crit stays the same, but you get....lets say a huge number of 50% haste!
    Time(s) Spell
    0-1 LvB, crit. (no bonus)
    1-2 LB, non crit (10% dmg bonus)
    2-3 LB, non crit (10% dmg bonus)
    3-4 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    4-5 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    5-6 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    6-7 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    7-8 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    8-9 LvB, crit (no bonus)

    Now the Clearcasting uptime was 2/9. 1/3 > 2/9. Now, go figure out why haste increases the value of crit.
    LOL Sure... if you assume we have 0% crit. After a fairly low % of crit, you start having diminishing returns on Clearcasting uptime. You only need 1 in 2 casts to crit to have clearcasting uptime 100% of the time (roughly). Once you have 50% crit which is fairly easy in raids, then you have a lower clearcasting uptime gain because crits start becoming consecutive which doesn't increase the damage.

  14. #14

    Re: Totem of Hex vs Totem of Electrifying Winds

    So basically the problem is my gear? From what I see I need to drop the mp5 and pick up more crit and haste. Anyone care to confirm this for me?

  15. #15

    Re: Totem of Hex vs Totem of Electrifying Winds

    Quote Originally Posted by Watisbldlust
    So basically the problem is my gear? From what I see I need to drop the mp5 and pick up more crit and haste. Anyone care to confirm this for me?
    With the above derailed thread - you concluded that you needed more crit?? /Facepalm

    ...No good sir! Stack Spell Power and Haste. Keep in mind: SP>Haste>>>crit. (The ">>>" means crit is NOT what you need to stack). And yes, get rid of all the MP5 you can. We shouldn't have any kind of mana problems.

    ...and let me just quote myself:
    Quote Originally Posted by Darcam
    Load up your gear in the latest version of Rawr and see your potential

  16. #16

    Re: Totem of Hex vs Totem of Electrifying Winds

    Quote Originally Posted by suffeli
    You should re-read the tooltip of Elemental Oath. "In addition, while Clearcasting from Elemental Focus is active, you deal 10% more spelldamage". To keep that buff up, with some napkin math, you need 50% crit to crit with every 2nd spell so all your spells get that 10% bonus.


    EDIT: Let me simplify this a bit to you. I'll make a scenario: Say you got 0% crit and 0% haste, your LvB will still have 100% crit chance due to its nature.
    Time(s) Spell
    0-1.5 LvB, crit. (no bonus)
    1.5-3.5 LB, non crit (10% dmg bonus)
    3.5-5.5 LB, non crit (10% dmg bonus)
    5.5-7.5 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    7.5-9.5 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    9.5-11 LvB, crit (no bonus)

    As you can see, with 0% crit you still get 1/3 (33%) uptime for Clearcasting. Now if your crit stays the same, but you get....lets say a huge number of 50% haste!
    Time(s) Spell
    0-1 LvB, crit. (no bonus)
    1-2 LB, non crit (10% dmg bonus)
    2-3 LB, non crit (10% dmg bonus)
    3-4 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    4-5 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    5-6 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    6-7 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    7-8 LB, non crit (no bonus)
    8-9 LvB, crit (no bonus)

    Now the Clearcasting uptime was 2/9. 1/3 > 2/9. Now, go figure out why haste increases the value of crit.

    and according do your example you have cast 3 more LB in that time, which far exceeds the small 10% bonus. Crit is a stat you want, but don't gem for it, and don't give up haste for it.

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