Why...Why are you all still whining about catering to casuals?

[klaps_05]

i want to be a unique snowflake whats wrong with that :[

[Xikem]

If you havent listened to any of the posts now you will never do. But let me just sumarise a few.

1. since they removed reputation grinding,atunments and heroics are insanely easy there is little to nothing to do outside raids. Basicly you either level an alt or just log on for raids.


2. Since theres so many items in the game you dont really feel the same excitment when you get a new epic. Back in tbc epics were rare as they only droped from raid instances. Geting an upgrade was actually something exciting.
Now you get badges/voa etc making the experience of geting an epic just a meh.

3. For the people who "want to see content" and play a long therm game its not possible anymore. You see everething 2 weeks after its out regardless if you play alot or not. For me hardmodes arent fun, i dont want a new chalange, i just want to see content but i want to see it like i used to in tbc, so that i know there is allways something else to see after im done with what im doing.

4. Blizzard stoped making good content. Instead of making new and exciting instance (Ajzol nerub raid, uthgrade raid etc etc) theyre investing more time on hard modes and crap like TOC since they know they can get away with it having fan boys like you apologising for them on the forums

Solutions
1: theres always PVP etc.
2:dont measure your epeen with your epics.
3:just because its not new to you doesnt mean its not new to everyone else and there is no diffrence between the content of now and BC they release content and you play it there was no wait
4: just because they didnt make the raids you wanted doesnt mean that their not "good content" and personally i nejoy ToC but i have not tried hardmodes for anything so i cant comment on that

[Xikem]

LFM ToC 10, must play 8 hours a day. If not GTFO scrub?

basically what they were asking during BC and Vanilla ... not as much now but its still bad.

[Banzubie]

That's right, pick up that stick. Yes. Now go over to that corpse. Now beat the horse. Beat the over sized rotting dead horse. CMON! HIT IT! BEAT THE HELL OUT OF IT!

[Xikem]

I don't really care anymore about this casuals getting easy gear/content anymore. What really bugs me is the lame excuse that they use: "I also pay 15$/month so I also have the right, blah blah"

Well look at it from this point of view, you pay your freaking taxes right? Just because of that it doesn't mean that you'll be getting a discount for a BMW or a big ass house dude. If you want good stuff you gotta work for it, and if you can't dedicate the right amount of time then hell quit the game or don't complain shit

do we choose whether or not we pay our taxes? That is why its a different situation in WOW we choose to pay and therefore we deserve the same content that others can get

[klaps_05]

That's right, pick up that club. Yes. Now go over to that corpse. Now beat the seal. Beat the over sized rotting dead seal. CMON! HIT IT! BEAT THE HELL OUT OF IT!

Fixed*

[Baever]

We have a game. We have a game we all play, and enjoy at least enough to pay 15$ a month for, and then spend server downtime getting on forums to discuss this game, despite the fact that the more mentally deficient of us claim that it is "the shit", in spite of spending said time and money on it. We have a game, that most of us continued to pay for by the month for the right to keep rerunning high end raid content, the same damn raid, for literally months on end, just to finally be geared enough and experienced enough to enter a single new raid or piece of raidesque content, and then spend months running and rerunning a new raid, to repeat the process indefinitely. We all enjoyed the game enough that that was good enough.

The game developers, who did indeed have a working plan that was making them money, decide to change it up in spite of that. Rather then fill the long expanse of time between expansions by stretching each new raid and tier of progression into a laborious process that took months of grinding gear, we have more content, released more frequently, with constant cycling of gear to make said new content accessible to more players, faster. Rather then everyone having to spend months in Naxxramas, running the same bosses again, and again, and again, just to finally have the gear necessary to experience something new, every time new content is released, the old gear is cycled down and made easier to get, so that we can all play the new addition to the game we're paying for as soon as possible.

So in the end, we as players are left with less monotonous raid grinding, and more content and game.

And you all respond by sending up a massive chorus of whining on the forums? Why?

Do you honestly miss having to repeat a raid at least forty times before your guild is geared enough to do something new? Are all you "hardcore" players honestly offended by the idea of someone who only can, or chooses to, log in for a few hours each week getting to see and experience the same things you do?

Anyone care to explain?

This thread is more pointless than the actual QQ threads.

At least those people are complaining about the actual game, instead of expressing your malcontent over someone's opinion differing from yours.

[Xikem]

This thread is more pointless than the actual QQ threads.

At least those people are complaining about the actual game, instead of expressing your malcontent over someone's opinion differing from yours.

He is complaining about the complainers because he is right our complaining is pointless

[Radaney]

2. Since theres so many items in the game you dont really feel the same excitment when you get a new epic. Back in Vanilla epics were rare as they only droped from raid instances. Geting an upgrade was actually something exciting. Now you get badges/voa etc making the experience of geting an epic just a meh.

Fixed

[rabbimojo]

That's right, pick up that stick. Yes. Now go over to that corpse. Now beat the horse. Beat the over sized rotting dead horse. CMON! HIT IT! BEAT THE HELL OUT OF IT!

Too true. ;P

...
I guess I just don't understand what has changed for the worse that people are in this much of an uproar.
...

There isn't a real uproar. It's just that the changes undermine a lot of the vocal minority who get 100% of their jollies from the game. Losing some of those jollies makes them sad, so they complain.

I don't really care anymore about this casuals getting easy gear/content anymore. What really bugs me is the lame excuse that they use: "I also pay 15$/month so I also have the right, blah blah"

Well look at it from this point of view, you pay your freaking taxes right? Just because of that it doesn't mean that you'll be getting a discount for a BMW or a big ass house dude. If you want good stuff you gotta work for it, and if you can't dedicate the right amount of time then hell quit the game or don't complain shit

Taxes and a game subscription are only related insofar as people pay them. That's it, just that one verb. This is an absolutely terrible analogy.

A more effective analogy is probably something like this: We all pay $15/month, thus we're all equally valuable to the developers. This is akin to the idea that "all men are created equal", thus we each have equal rights to the content.

Truth is, WoW is a content experience system. It's got a game built around that, and to some extent the game (and mechanics) -are- the content. However, the bulk of the WoW team's content development budget goes to art and instance design. The devs have decided that it is more efficient to get these parts experienced by more players, in large part I imagine because exit surveys suggest players feel that most of the game isn't for them.

So, although the "I pay $15/month too!" arguments are a bit clumsy, they're fairly on-target.

[Baever]

He is complaining about the complainers because he is right our complaining is pointless

Not entirely.

Complaining on an unofficial site is relatively pointless, but bringing your pleas to the actual WoW forums does have the chance of getting somewhere, especially if it's well worded and shown to have some community support.

[Recompence]

I don't really care anymore about this casuals getting easy gear/content anymore. What really bugs me is the lame excuse that they use: "I also pay 15$/month so I also have the right, blah blah"

Well look at it from this point of view, you pay your freaking taxes right? Just because of that it doesn't mean that you'll be getting a discount for a BMW or a big ass house dude. If you want good stuff you gotta work for it, and if you can't dedicate the right amount of time then hell quit the game or don't complain shit

WoW is not the real world, I think all the nerdragers need to figure this out. In fact your parallel is an epic fail from the get go. By paying $15.00 a month for the game you are entering a monthly contract guaranteeing a specific experience relating to the cost. Meaning you're paying to experience game content. Now that doesn't entitle the player to just be handed everything however they are paying for the same experience, i.e. content. now where the game differs per player is loot and achievements. That is entirely up to the player.

[Adriynn]

This thread is more pointless than the actual QQ threads.

At least those people are complaining about the actual game, instead of expressing your malcontent over someone's opinion differing from yours.

I crown you King of the Annoying Assholes.

I posted this thread in the hopes that someone would explain their opinion to me, because I honestly don't understand it. Many people have done so, some accurately and rationally, some in a cloud of foaming rage. But they all told me something about their opinion or the question this thread asked in the process.

You on the other hand, have wasted minutes of your life posting a response to this thread, only to point out how pointless it is to post a response to this thread, and stick your nose up at the OP.

For writing a post to disdain the other posters, which in the process makes you one of the people you're disdaining, I name you Baever, King of the Annoying Forum Assholes.

Go forth unto your dominion my liege, and spread your douche baggery among us mortals.

[rabbimojo]

Or maybe just maybe us in between wants a challenge, and not just crying and facerolling the entire game outside or inside raids. How do super casual people handle reallife? i just cant understand it, real life is full of challenge stuff, do they cry to god for nerfs? that work is to hard ? it will always be a mystery i fear.

Let me explain it, then:

1) Many people are dealing with real life challenges
2) So when they game, they aren't looking for it to be some extreme "prove myself" task
3) WoW's team wants them to enjoy the game, so they make the content accessible.

Not wanting to play 24/7 does not make someone bad. They may not be 100% up on the latest, but it has no real effect on their skills. If you believe it does, then you've probably surrounded yourself by the wrong people.

In any case, fundamentally there's plenty of hard content, and it's as hard as it's ever been. See the other thread on this, some good posts there. The only real difference is that these days it is easier to keep a guild together and focused, because they've taken out obnoxious things like individual attunements.

The devs are struggling to provide non-raid content meaningful to every type of player, though, so the game feels a bit more boring for many. This is pretty common in long-running games, and is really just because content is harder to produce than consume.

There really isn't much reason to have this thread, though. The vast majority of players are ok with the game as it is, it's just a very vocal group of inarticulate people complaining.

[Trifande]

Or maybe just maybe us in between wants a challenge, and not just crying and facerolling the entire game outside or inside raids. How do super casual people handle reallife? i just cant understand it, real life is full of challenge stuff, do they cry to god for nerfs? that work is to hard ? it will always be a mystery i fear.

Challenge? Unless you are one of the handful that has Alagon, Yogg0, Anub(hc), Tribute to Insanity on farm with ease please GTFO with dissing the challenge of the game. What Blizz did with WotLK, in general, was to make normal raids easier (mostly), and heroic/hard-modes HARDER. Never before have Sarth/Freya+3, Yogg0, Tribute runs really been seen in the game, and when they were the max tier each of them was completed by just about the same fraction of the raiding population as previous (pre-wotlk) 'hard' encounters were. Unlike previously, WoW now caters to those who want a challenge AND those who don't care. The in-betweens that just want their gaming prolonged but don't want to really bother with it being too difficult (the ones that do not want to wipe a lot and spend weeks learning and gearing for a single boss, the same ones who used to wait till they more or less overgeared an encounter to be able to beat it finally) are the ones that whine CONSTANTLY about normal mode being too easy and hardmode being too hard. The F@c$#ng F@$kT@rds are the ones that whine and moan whenever shit doesn't go their way and cannot handle the fact that Blizzard is finally catering to the majority of the player base, even if they use horse blinders to the fact.

/rant

[Agrus_ve]

do we choose whether or not we pay our taxes? That is why its a different situation in WOW we choose to pay and therefore we deserve the same content that others can get

You're right in that one, you don't get to choose wether or not pay for taxes. But (moving back to the WoW thing) if you know you can't play as much WoW as you'd like then you shouldn't be demanding for stuff that require more time to get

[Wyn]

If you havent listened to any of the posts now you will never do. But let me just sumarise a few.

1. since they removed reputation grinding,atunments and heroics are insanely easy there is little to nothing to do outside raids. Basicly you either level an alt or just log on for raids.


2. Since theres so many items in the game you dont really feel the same excitment when you get a new epic. Back in tbc epics were rare as they only droped from raid instances. Geting an upgrade was actually something exciting.
Now you get badges/voa etc making the experience of geting an epic just a meh.

3. For the people who "want to see content" and play a long therm game its not possible anymore. You see everething 2 weeks after its out regardless if you play alot or not. For me hardmodes arent fun, i dont want a new chalange, i just want to see content but i want to see it like i used to in tbc, so that i know there is allways something else to see after im done with what im doing.

4. Blizzard stoped making good content. Instead of making new and exciting instance (Ajzol nerub raid, uthgrade raid etc etc) theyre investing more time on hard modes and crap like TOC since they know they can get away with it having fan boys like you apologising for them on the forums

1. WRONG There was always nothing to do once you got epics. There is alot more to do now than there used to be. Heroics became easy once you got gear. Then they became insanely easy.

2. WRONG Epics were only rare if you didnt raid. you got epics in heroics too. If you raided, you got new gear practically every week. Now theres more epics to get, and you qq about the choice.

3. WRONG. I dont get where you are coming from for "long TERM". Yeah, everyone saw yogg 2 weeks after release right? uh huh. BC got boring just the same when u played alot. Everything sucked after doing it x amount of times. You couldnt just move on to the next tier of content til everyone was ready. That meant raiding kara, za, mag, grull, ssc, tk til your eyes bled and then you could move on to mh/bt. You dont want the challenge of hardmodes, but u want to faceroll 100+ raids they make while complaining how easy/unoriginal they are right?

4. "blizzard stopped making good content" GTFO, oh you are, well stay out and get out of these forums while ur at it. You were in one of the 2 guilds that killed KT at 60 right? Ulduar wasnt new and exciting right? Toc wasnt new at all right, just the same old raid bosses with no new fights and no new lore. There was a different raiding concept altogether. And im sure the 1000+ hours they put into ICC is gonna be complete crap, that youd rather do naxx.

You will probably complain about ICC and not even step into it. You will probably watch a topend guild down a boss on a video, and somehow come to the conclusion that it was easy faceroll and go directly to the forums to tell everyone who doesnt give a shit what you have to say, the "truth"

[veemon_ro]

1: theres always PVP etc.

I don't like pvp, I never did. The reason I played wow is to experience its story wich it took me 2 years to do so i was happy all the time. Now it takes me 2 weeks after a patch.

2:dont measure your epeen with your epics.

I'm playing diablo. Its been 4 hrs now and nothing droped. Sudently I kill this rare mob and a golden shield drops. A smile appears on my face as I am happy that after 4 hrs I got an upgrade and improved my toon.

Now picture this. You play diablo. Every monster you kill drops that shield. Hell its raining shields, even when you dont kill something, a shield pops up.
Sudently upgrades dont even matter anymore. A huge part of the game wich was upgrading your toon becomes a boring tedius thing that you just do it but dont have that much fun.

3:just because its not new to you doesnt mean its not new to everyone else and there is no diffrence between the content of now and BC they release content and you play it there was no wait

In tbc in order to reach bt for a newly starting player it could take up to a year if you take the normal progression rate.
Do instances and get rep to go to heroics. Then do heroics and craftables. Then kara. Then ssc/tk. Then finally you were in bt.
Now what? Heroics -> ICC. Wheres the jurney? it takes 2 weeks to get a toon up in the LAST instance of the game.

4: just because they didnt make the raids you wanted doesnt mean that their not "good content" and personally i nejoy ToC but i have not tried hardmodes for anything so i cant comment on that

Excuse me?! Are you under a rock or something?

How many people enjoy TOC?! Seriously are you just arguing with me for the sake of argument or you actually bealive what youre saying?!

The only instance that was good in tbc is ulduar.
Toc can be done by even a guy owning a private server by typing some random stuff in a console. Its horible, dreadfull most uterly dissgusting piece of shit that doesnt make sense withing lore and has the worse gameplay what so ever

[Renzokuken]

"WoW is a game, stfu and go outside basement-dweller!"
WoW is a hobby, and like any hobby should require time and dedication. Football is a game too, that doesn't mean that 0-16 teams get to play in the superbowl.

"I pay the same 15 bucks, why shouldn't I get to kill Arthas?!"
If you pay $15 to play ~7 hours a week, good job.

"I have a job, I don't have time to raid!"
I really hate this excuse. I get it, work is important, but ToC 25 only take a couple hours to clear at most. If you don't have 2 hours of freetime a week, you're working too hard. Take a goddamn vacation.

[Baever]

I crown you King of the Annoying Assholes.

I posted this thread in the hopes that someone would explain their opinion to me, because I honestly don't understand it. Many people have done so, some accurately and rationally, some in a cloud of foaming rage. But they all told me something about their opinion or the question this thread asked in the process.

You on the other hand, have wasted minutes of your life posting a response to this thread, only to point out how pointless it is to post a response to this thread, and stick your nose up at the OP.

For writing a post to disdain the other posters, which in the process makes you one of the people you're disdaining, I name you Baever, King of the Annoying Forum Assholes.

Go forth unto your dominion my liege, and spread your douche baggery among us mortals.

You want my opinion?

I have trouble adjusting to a game that potentially rewards players for being bad. When I see someone in my raid with full epics (and decent ones, too) gem like an idiot with no obvious knowledge of what his or her talent points are do a whopping 1800 DPS, I die a little bit on the inside. What makes it worse, is when I politely offer advice and am immediately labeled some kind of fascist elitist pig, when in reality I'm all for democracy and clean shaven. I have no problem helping out the misinformed, but I do not enjoy aiding the stubborn or being spat back in the face for offering help.

Also, the community is slowly, but surely dying on an increasing number of servers. When you can ninja loot, then immediately change your name, server, and even now faction, you eradicate all sense of character definition or possible repercussions. When your main tank or guild leader server xffers because 4/5 ToGC 'isn't good enough,' potentially killing your guild and putting everyone else on the 'looking for guild pst' list, the gaming experience is severely diminished.

It cannot be denied that the game has improved since Vanilla and TBC in numerous aspects, but it's losing a few key elements that really made the game worth playing.