Don't freak out about Lay on Hands... yet

[wanax]

I disagree, the fact that you have a single ability that can change the course of a fight from a sure loss to a win would be a gamebreaker.

There are very few other skills in this game that have the kind of magnitude that LoH has, Army of the Dead being one.

Except a good player will interrupt AotD. It DOES have a cast time that everyone seems to forget. LoH on the other hand doesn't. Its instant cast.

[sexualchocolate]

And that hurts paladins so much, I mean BGs is what this game is about amirite?

not that i care either way about the nerf but honestly BGs are what the game is about for some people i know a guy who logs in and just does bgs cause he works too much not everyone who plays is raiding or doing arena

[Deaths]

Because Paladins don't need nerfed, right? And they need ANOTHER way to heal themselves to full almost instantly after bubbling, right?

another way? nah just the same way we had, now what rogues need is MORE dmg right? MORE stunlocking against people who aren't paladins or warriors or dks RIGHT?

go back to rogue forums kkthx.

[kingmob]

I don't really mind it. Sure it's powerful, but really? Not too bad.

For tanking it was nice for them, but honestly how many use it on themselves when needed? Almost every single one I know either forget about it or use it on another tank.

I can't think of the last time I had a tankadin toss one on me. It's their default oh shit button especially for long term paladins that have that behavior ingrained from years of not having many active cooldowns.

Divine Protection = Shield Wall = Barkskin
Ardent Defense = Last Stand = Survival Instincts
DKs have different depending on their spec.

Just because one of your panic buttons are actually automatic in exchange for being a bit worse doesn't mean it's not there.
Also, anyone remember Blizzard using the word "Consistency"? As in, "Your class has now been nerfed into consistency".

Yes, I played a Mage during early TBC. This is nothing.

Except Ardent Defender isn't worst since it AUTOMATICALLY procs when you need it.

Wouldn't say equal, but Enraged Regeneration is a powerful self-heal for warriors. I know that LoH has a place whenever I'm tanking, so if this goes live I would hope theres a talent deep in the prot tree to allow prot paladins to use it on themselves.

ER is only powerful when coupled with the use of commanding shout and last stand which is oddly enough how most warriors use it.

[Arakamoh]

Paladins need nerfs but not Lay on Hands because it has a respectful cooldown and it is a life saver but I would ask for a 1.5 second cast on it so you actually at least have a chance to stop them.

The problem is what you lot do not realise is that no one can solo you unless they are rather 1. a paladin themselfs or 2. theres at least 2 people with them. Your survivability is respectable but being able to deal the damage as well as your survivability is wrong and instead of nerfing your defence they should nerf your offense and you know why they wont nerf your offense? because they want ret. paladins to still be able to do melee dps in raids and partys alike.

Blizzard want to balance you but they do not want to hurt raiders either so THAT is the only reason why they gave back Lay on Hands not for pvp but for your pve needs and ret.paladins will keep their bursts like a elemental/enhancement shaman's burst because if they nerfed it then they would do very bad at pve.

But you are going to get nerfed this patch and because it is not Lay on Hands it does not mean that they wont nerf you, because they will and might actually put one of your baselines into one of your talent trees (Divine shield in deep protection talents anyone?)

[Mathin]

I like your suggestion, a cast time would make it interesting. BUT the point i really want to make is: and no offense to some people, as a frost mage, I have no problems soloing a paladin through every CD they dare use, so from my PoV, they can keep their LoH.

[Sarkli]

I hope it does go live regardless of what Ghost said. Paladins have had a roll-face spec for too long. They can put out alot of damage up front and yet you can seem to kill them unless you get lucky. When you have to burn through 3 health bars to kill someone.. thats a bit much. Example: (1)Burn through their health, (2)LoH <reset button> burn through again, (3)bubble <heal, heal> back to full again and for most Ret Pallies thats 25khp x 3 on average. Theyve needed to hit ret pallies w/ a pvp nerf bat for awhile now, you guys have one too many outs. BoF, 2 bubbles + sacred shield(yay for the nerf to that), (HoJ, Repentance<which in alot of cases between those two someone can either be killed or have 3/4 of their health taken out>) and you can heal yourself pretty much w/o interuption through most of these abilities. Even if they dont nerf it yet.. it needs to have something done to it for pvp. If you say "QQ waaaaahh no nerf i got so upset i wet myself waaaah" your not being reasonable for one and two have had it so easy for so long that any changes that occur will just prove whos good among you and who just relies on 'i win' buttons for everything

[Sarkli]

heh and reading a few more posts, makes me laugh, but if you have to RELY on LoH as a tank for any boss especially w/ a holy priest in your raid.. you need to get new healers cuz thats pure fail. And yeah frost mages can kite kill just about anyone atm so..

[Demo7777]

Perhaps Rets in pve will actually realize the effectiveness of making a macro and using it as a tank saver. Why not save the raid from a wipe with the loss of one global cooldown, it won't hurt your rotation much.

[Ronark]

heh and reading a few more posts, makes me laugh, but if you have to RELY on LoH as a tank for any boss especially w/ a holy priest in your raid.. you need to get new healers cuz thats pure fail. And yeah frost mages can kite kill just about anyone atm so..

Hard modes or Alagon, 'nuff said.

Perhaps Rets in pve will actually realize the effectiveness of making a macro and using it as a tank saver. Why not save the raid from a wipe with the loss of one global cooldown, it won't hurt your rotation much.

We already do.

[Demo7777]

We already do.

I would be hesitant in saying we. This is one of the things that defines a "good" ret, and the average.

[DaGhostDS]

Perhaps Rets in pve will actually realize the effectiveness of making a macro and using it as a tank saver. Why not save the raid from a wipe with the loss of one global cooldown, it won't hurt your rotation much.

We already do.

^This
and http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=68884

[ShiftyShifts]

Let us take a few things into consideration.

a.) This does not affect only your LOLPVP!.
b.) I do not rely on my LOH however while Tanking. I can't count on my fingers and toes how many times healers have died from stupid mistakes near the end of an encounter and I have lasted through blowing my cooldowns such as LOH.
c.) Paladins are OP!

Now that all of that is out of the way how about we come to an understanding, We need to be nerfed. Plain and simple. They are however doing it in the wrong place. Instead of Taking away our (Oh shit my healer sucks button) they take away something much more simple. Our Bubble! Tanks can't use the bubble because we drop aggro if we pop it. It is very OP in LOLPVP!. You get the same effect as LOH because most paladins use it to heal back to full health.

[ShiftyShifts]

plus they could tie something to ret's 51 talent spec that allows LOH to onlybe able to be used on a target other than their self if need be.

[shotter]

hope we dont see it on live

Shield Wall ~= Divine Protection
Last Stand ~= Ardent Defender
??? ~= Lay On Hands

Warrior != Paladin
paladin > warrior
----------------------

plus they could tie something to ret's 51 talent spec that allows LOH to onlybe able to be used on a target other than their self if need be.

you say lolpvp, nerf, prot holy, buff ret? :/

[Sarkli]

Hard modes or Alagon, 'nuff said.

Okay then.. make it a Prot spec'd talent far down the tree so only they can get it to heal themselves. Problem solved

[Ronark]

Okay then.. make it a Prot spec'd talent far down the tree so only they can get it to heal themselves. Problem solved

Except it is not a tanking cooldown.

[bigfoot1291]

lol Blizz takes away one of the paladin's nine lives and they QQ about it.

[Ronark]

lol Blizz takes away one of the paladin's nine lives and they QQ about it.

Its like taking away your iceblock, enraged frenzy, AotD, rebirth, soulstone, reincarnate....

[HitRefresh]

Shield Wall ~= Divine Protection
Last Stand ~= Ardent Defender
??? ~= Lay On Hands

Give Warriors LoH then, just don't take it away from Paladins.

Well the functionality to cast it on oneself.