PvP killing raiding paladins?

[Deaths]

Fine then make it a TANK ability only that u can use only in prot spec and nowhere else.
I can't use my survival instincts nr frenzied regen in pvp as cat , thank you.

awww is someone sad? classes are not equal, they will never be equal and are not meant to be equal.

go play hello kitty island adventure so that you can play with your friends and all be equal.

[Arganaut]

PVP has always buggered up raiding for Paladins. I have lost count of the numbers of so called 'nerfs' to PVE raiders due to issues around PVP balance. This will only stop when Blizz make the move to split the two, and split PVE and PVP completely.

[Zedthetank]

Paladin
Holy
•Sacred Shield can now only occur every 30 sec. (Up from 6 sec)
•Lay on Hands can no longer be cast on yourself.
•Infusion of Light now also reduces the cooldown on the effect of Sacred Shield by 12/24 sec.
•Aura Mastery now lasts 6 sec. (Down from 10 sec)

Point 1, is a nerf for Pvp for one reason, Ret paladins. Nuf said
Point 2, was revoked even then its not a nerf only people in raids who should be using LoH are holy paladins
Point 3, isn't a nerf it bring SS back to its ful usefulness to a holy paladin
point 4, This is a nerf, becuase AM is just so useful on so many fights (less damage, silence immune etc.)

[Fancyfeast]

I don't know why anyone on earth would bitch about LoH. It's unusable in the only PVP that matters (arena), and it's treated like an average survival cooldown in PVE. Pointless nerf, if it ever did make it live, which it won't.

[Ronark]

I don't know why anyone on earth would bitch about LoH. It's unusable in the only PVP that matters (arena), and it's treated like an average survival cooldown in PVE. Pointless nerf, if it ever did make it live, which it won't.

Its because of its use as a Tanking Cooldown.

[wanax]

I don't play a Pally, don't particularly like them either but I'm not here to flame or poke fun.

I think the LoH nerf was needed but i think Blizz could have taken it a different direction. They could have made it more of a Last Stand/ Blood Gorged/ Survival Instincts type ability. This would have reduced the amount of QQ somewhat (we all know people would still whine because they dont get an extra life in BG's/duels/ or situational PvE) and made it a really good across the board ability well suited for tanking.

The Sacred Shield nerf is a bit harder to put together for me. I know it blocks a lil dmg and increases healing received. I guess making it like a shield wall for prot could be a lot better used as a tanking CD and have it also increase healing taken while the effect persists?

I don't know. Those are just my thoughts on the topic. I do love ret tears but i dont like seeing people who are actually good get utility taken away. I also know pallys need a few more CDs but in all fairness they're arguably the best tanks in game atm.

Edit: Oh and i do plan on playing one come Cata. The classes i still dont have are Pally Priest Mage. I think Pally will make me wanna hurt myself the least.

[kingmob]

Its because of its use as a Tanking Cooldown.

I was assuming that as well but before the tweak to ardent defender pallies were definitely falling behind in the cooldown game. Doesn't entirely make sense.

[Ronark]

I don't play a Pally, don't particularly like them either but I'm not here to flame or poke fun.

I think the LoH nerf was needed but i think Blizz could have taken it a different direction. They could have made it more of a Last Stand/ Blood Gorged/ Survival Instincts type ability. This would have reduced the amount of QQ somewhat (we all know people would still whine because they dont get an extra life in BG's/duels/ or situational PvE) and made it a really good across the board ability well suited for tanking.

The Sacred Shield nerf is a bit harder to put together for me. I know it blocks a lil dmg and increases healing received. I guess making it like a shield wall for prot could be a lot better used as a tanking CD and have it also increase healing taken while the effect persists?

I don't know. Those are just my thoughts on the topic. I do love ret tears but i dont like seeing people who are actually good get utility taken away. I also know pallys need a few more CDs but in all fairness they're arguably the best tanks in game atm.

Edit: Oh and i do plan on playing one come Cata. The classes i still dont have are Pally Priest Mage. I think Pally will make me wanna hurt myself the least.

AD is meant to be the Paladin's Last Stand- If they wanted to reduce the healing LoH does for tanks (and general PvP) they could make RF reduce LoH's healing by X% instead.

I was assuming that as well but before the tweak to ardent defender pallies were definitely falling behind in the cooldown game. Doesn't entirely make sense.

Yes, before AD they were short in the cooldown depot- The reason that Blizzard doesn't count LoH as a tanking CD is due to its nature of having to use it at the EXACT time (when you are about to die, and won't be healed enough in the next second).

[BoxofRox]

looking at the thread this caught my attention.
Why would you want video proof of something that sounds believable..?

Apperently I misread. I though it said 2 days playing roughly 4 hours. I missed the week, my bad :/

[Smashfist]

Nerfs don't really hurt raiding rets.

1) I don't have mana issues so I don't use LoH
2) I don't have spare GCD's for SS anyway

[Ronark]

2) I don't have spare GCD's for SS anyway

Thats fail.

[TwistedPower]

Who cares? I dont. PvP keeps raiding in check, the classes were desinged for PvE and vanilla wow was seriously flawed, once the PvP balanced kickes in classes have been a lot more = .

[Ershiin]

PvP has been killing Raiding since the first Battlegrounds were released.. Dont worry its a slow death. I'm sure you'll all have quit long before the final breath is drawn.

[Kikazz]

yes smart ass i am a bear druid and i do pop survival instincts but u guys already got one cooldown..what's it name again , ah yes, Divine Protection.
LoH is overkill -and it means your healers DO suck. Oh and if they get up that low on hp, then u are about to wipe anyway after LoH got used. So gg
Last Stand is like Divine Protection - ok even better but uget the idea.
And honestly..i have NEVER seen our tank DKs doing death pact as tank in raids, mainly because we use blood tanks i guess,and also coz it sounds to me like that specific tank has a lot of time there to play with pets and not tanking.

survival instincts doesnt make you immune to dsamage u tool and it doesnt drop all of your aggro to the next person on the chian l2play... i agree pvp tols are fucking up pally tanks its just ncie to have a wtf where are my heals button instead of bubbling then half the raid wiping just to save the tank.

[Arakamoh]

just to point this out
warriors - last stand, shield wall, shield block, enraged regen
druids - survival instincts, barkskin, frenzied regen
DKs - IBF, AMS, Deathpact + 1 or 2 per spec
pallies - Div protection, Ardent defender....????......oh yeah LoH

survival cooldowns are for surviving folks.

O and which ones have the most powerful survival cooldowns out of all of them ummmm o wait PALADINS! and if your dependent on a 20 minute cooldown like everyone is saying on here its your freaking healers.

[Toogood]

GC commented, that the palidan changes are not set, as they are still wrking on makin the fix better!

[Samic]

pallies - Div protection, Ardent defender, Glyphed Hand of Salvation, lots of static percentage-based damage reduction, Sacred Shield if there's no Holy Pala, Holy Shield (since you're bothering calling Shield Block survival cooldown.)

Yeah because glyphing and using hand of salvation as a tank (this being a lollohnerf, since you'll have to be the mobs maintarget to not being able to LOH yourself.) is a good idea, no really. Threat doesn't mean shit, 25% is nothing.

[Ronark]

Yeah because glyphing and using hand of salvation as a tank (this being a lollohnerf, since you'll have to be the mobs maintarget to not being able to LOH yourself.) is a good idea, no really. Threat doesn't mean shit, 25% is nothing.

In some fights, no, its not- You can easily get away with blowing HoSalv on yourself when MTing and still hold threat.

[Amran20]

survival instincts doesnt make you immune to dsamage u tool and it doesnt drop all of your aggro to the next person on the chian l2play... i agree pvp tols are fucking up pally tanks its just ncie to have a wtf where are my heals button instead of bubbling then half the raid wiping just to save the tank.

Okay, while the person you quoted was stupid, you're even more retarded. Grats on achieving that. Please god tell me you haven't been tanking THIS long while Divine Protection is a 50% damage reducer.

Once again, for all the EXTREMELY SLOW CHILDREN: Divine Protection = 50% damage reduction. Divine Shield = Immunity bubble we all know and love/hate.

[RunicTitan]

Apperently I misread. I though it said 2 days playing roughly 4 hours. I missed the week, my bad :/

Next time, L2read before running your fucking mouth... or if that fails to register with your small intellectual compatibility, GTFO thanks