1. #1

    Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    Title says it all.

    I actually think it's funny how a lot of people think the LoH nerf was PvP-related, when it is already disqualified from arena. In my mind, this is an obvious nerf to PvE holy paladins, since many of us used Glyph of Divinity and LoH'ed ourselves as a huge "OSHIT" button with a massive mana bonus.

    I'm assuming a lot of folks will be switching to Holy Shock, since Blizzard is pushing us to use it more often (see also: T10 Libram), but I'm curious to see what everyone's thinking.

    Anyone gonna stick with Glyph of Divinity, post-nerf?

  2. #2

    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    poor prot paladins are getting it right up the arse today, so far thats a loss of a tremendous amount of effective health and now one of their 2 self activated cooldowns.

    On topic, Beacon, Holy light, Seal of wisdom, like i use now

  3. #3

    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    If a holy paladin is still using Divinity over Beacon of Light glyph these days, he should check his math.

  4. #4

    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    Quote Originally Posted by fex
    Anyone gonna stick with Glyph of Divinity, post-nerf?
    Why exactly would you have it even now? Besides the obvious HL and BoW glyphs, FoL, HS and Beacon are all better choices than Glyph of Divinity.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    I use LoS, and Beacon, with divinity.
    To have a spell with a possible 9k mana return, is to give us a mana tide.
    Makes little sense to chose a 1 sec less on the cd of holy shock if you end up having your mana burned down, depending on how your raid goes.
    I know you are not suposed to run out of mana as a holydin, but you see, if you heal your ass out, depending on the fight, it does get below 40% and that is sometimes a problem, so the OH SHIT button needs to be pushed.
    Beeing able to have such a strong mana pool without depending on a druid's innervate or a shaman's mana tide makes much more sense to me.

  6. #6

    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerstin
    I use LoS, and Beacon, with divinity.
    By "LoS", I assume you mean "SoL"?

    This is a pretty weird set up, especially given that your reasoning for doing so involves mana return.

    First off, SoL. +5% healing. Unless you're a FoL spammer (which you shouldn't be - and I don't think you are because no FoL glyph), this glyph is more often than not going to waste as overhealing. Without even a hair of a doubt, SoW is far and away the best second choice for a glyph. 5% off the cost of each heal cast is absurdly more useful. HL and SoW glyphs are givens in any good Pally's arsenal. Not to mention the occasional melee swing at a boss for incredible mana return (Judging counts btw! So your judges can actually give you mana!).

    Besides those two, Beacon, FoL and HS are the only three left that make sense. I'll give you that HS is generally the least useful of the three and the FoL one is only useful if you find yourself FoLing.

    However... If you are worried about mana conservation, Beacon Glyph gives you more mana "back" than the LoH one.

    In an average six minute fight, you will need to cast Beacon at least six times. At a cost of 1.5k mana per cast, that's 9000. With the Beacon glyph, you will only have to cast it four times at a cost of 6000 mana. Beacon glyph is saving you 3000 mana per fight.

    LoH does not give you back 9k mana in any situation. Glyphed and used on yourself, it gives you back slightly less than 8k. Glyphed and used on the tank you get back 4k. So the question is... Are you using your Beacon on yourself more than once every two and a half fights? Or are you using it on your tank (which is what you ought to be doing) nearly every single fight? If the answers to the questions aren't "Yes" (and given an 11 min CD, I don't see how they possibly could be) you're glyphed wrong.

    You mentioned "oh shit" moments. I dunno about you, but my "oh shit" is almost never "oh shit I'm almost out of mana and there's a lot more fight left". It's "oh shit my tank's about to die". The times you use your LoH on yourself should be few and far between.

    Long story short... If you want mana regen for your third glyph, use Beacon glyph. Not LoH.
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  7. #7

    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest
    First off, SoL. +5% healing. Unless you're a FoL spammer (which you shouldn't be - and I don't think you are because no FoL glyph), this glyph is more often than not going to waste as overhealing. Without even a hair of a doubt, SoW is far and away the best second choice for a glyph. 5% off the cost of each heal cast is absurdly more useful. HL and SoW glyphs are givens in any good Pally's arsenal. Not to mention the occasional melee swing at a boss for incredible mana return (Judging counts btw! So your judges can actually give you mana!).
    I agree and disagree with alot of what you said except this line. I think that FoL spamming has become a huge point since 3.2 dropped. So much so I'd say that nearly 80% of my cast time (not necessarily effective healing) is spent casting FoL now. Also with the shield HoT and 4pc, and with a decent haste stack putting me at flat 1s FoLs it is easily one of the most useful heals we have.

    That said, you are 100% right on the LoH argument. Personally I have used SoW, HL and FoL as my glyphs since wotlk started and dont see myself changing them anytime soon (possibly FoL for HS or Beacon, but mana isn't really an issue). Using glyphs like LoH and JoL as a holy pally is kinda a waste since there are so many better glyphs now. And like Firecrest said, if you are casting LoH on yourself really EVER you are doing it wrong.

  8. #8
    Dreadlord rillak's Avatar
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    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest
    In an average six minute fight, you will need to cast Beacon at least six times. At a cost of 1.6k mana per cast, that's over 9000.
    fix'd

  9. #9
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    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    I run SoW, HS, and HL right now.

    Mostly because its easier to just renew both BoL and SS on the target every minute together :P

  10. #10

    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    LoH nerf will not go live the way it is. It wasn't even intended to go on the PTR.
    Samin
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  11. #11

    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    I run SoW, HS, and HL right now.

    Mostly because its easier to just renew both BoL and SS on the target every minute together :P
    lol i runned with those glyphs to but since i counted the times i used HS everytime it comes free i saw i mostly use it every 7sec's so for me was HS useless i never had mana problems so i dont need need the divinity glyph one thing every paladin should have is the lay on hands glyph (minor) it can help sometimes.

  12. #12
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    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyshockTalniEU
    lol i runned with those glyphs to but since i counted the times i used HS everytime it comes free i saw i mostly use it every 7sec's so for me was HS useless i never had mana problems so i dont need need the divinity glyph one thing every paladin should have is the lay on hands glyph (minor) it can help sometimes.
    I found that using that to earn more IoL procs for HS was somewhat "balancing" the "increased" mana cost of HS.

  13. #13

    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Samin
    LoH nerf will not go live the way it is. It wasn't even intended to go on the PTR.
    This is what I'm thinking. It's a nerf for PvE Holy Pallies. This change isn't about PvP Prot-Holy like the Sacred Shield change is, and that change will likely stay. This change affects PvE Prot Pallies too much.

    Edit: What I think they will do is change the ability to not give mana back when used on oneself, or at least not give the bonus mana of the glyph.

  14. #14
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbobubblin
    This is what I'm thinking. It's a nerf for PvE Holy Pallies. This change isn't about PvP Prot-Holy like the Sacred Shield change is, and that change will likely stay. This change affects PvE Prot Pallies too much.

    Edit: What I think they will do is change the ability to not give mana back when used on oneself, or at least not give the bonus mana of the glyph.
    Or change the glyph so you do earn the extra mana, but the mana gain is not "quadrupled" when used on yourself.

  15. #15

    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathflid
    On topic, Beacon, Holy light, Seal of wisdom, like i use now
    QFE

  16. #16

    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    Quote Originally Posted by rillak
    fix'd
    If your Beacons are costing you 1.6k mana, you're doing it wrong. Mine are exactly 1506 mana.
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  17. #17
    Bloodsail Admiral Deralte's Avatar
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    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest
    If your Beacons are costing you 1.6k mana, you're doing it wrong. Mine are exactly 1506 mana.
    still leads to

    Quote Originally Posted by rillak
    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest
    over 9000

  18. #18
    The Patient
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    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    Any PvE Holy paladin using this glyph should just quit the game

    and FYI my beacon costs exactly 1.460 mana... pwned :>
    I got 99 problems, but mah bubble ain't one

  19. #19

    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    Both the SS and LoH nerf seem more directed at heavy prot and ret nerfs... dunno why holy paladins are even discussing this crap.

    I pvp as ret, and this really blows, though. Taking all the defense (another class getting bubble dispell, ss nerf, loh nerf) out of a defense-utilitarian class makes no sense, no matter how you cut it, though, I suppose.

    On topic: this post sucks
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  20. #20

    Re: Holy: What Glyph will you replace Divinity with if the LoH nerf goes live?

    Quote Originally Posted by Samin
    LoH nerf will not go live the way it is. It wasn't even intended to go on the PTR.
    The grass is always greener - The times were always better

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