Sacred Shield nerf... (just read its not bitchin about it too much)

[Vooxo]

im fine with the nerf cz i know its a bit OP... but i swear there is a talent in the prot tree after the divine sacrifice talent.

do u think they will change that talent around for the spell or leave it as it is... cz if they leave it, its pretty stupid talent and there would be no point in getting in.

also, the spell have a 30sec timer (without the prot talent that makes it 1min). this isnt the timer that the shield last spot, its the buff that u get saying the next piece of damage u take will absord X amount of damage.
if the spell CD was 30 (the nerf) then it would only activate once for the whole duration (like absorbing 600 damage). this would make the spell pretty fuckin stupid and a waits of a global CD for me. i wouldnt use the spell EVER unless they changed the spell a bit

[Prentice]

Just laying out the facts without being a douche here.

First: This change is unlikely to go live.

We are trying some things with Sacred Shield to make it more of a Holy tool and less useful for Ret and Prot (without being totally irrelevant). I don't have a lot of faith that the implementation on the PTR is the one we'll go with for a couple of reasons, but our overall goal is to make Ret less tanky and the Holy tree feel like it's the right one to focus on for healing. I would expect a Sacred Shield change of some kind though.

Second: Correcting your math.
The [Sacred Shield] tooltip doesn't show it but this ability uses a spell coefficient equal to 75% of the paladin's spell power. Meaning your Sacred Shield will absorb 500 damage plus 75% of your spell power.

Assume you are an average holy pally with 2200 SP. Your Sacred Shield will absorb 500 + [2200 x .75]= 2150 damage every 30 seconds without any talent buffs. Using 12% of your base mana to mitigate 2150 damage/30 seconds is not really worth it. However, Sacred Shield also grants a Heal over Time affect from your FoL for 50% of its heal. IMO, that is worth it.

It appears that you are a prot pally. In decent gear you should have around 1000 spell power when buffed. Without the talent, 500 + [1000 x.75]= 1250 damage absorbed. Apply the talent for 3000 damage absorbed over 60 seconds.

Finally, I am not trying to justify taking this talent or prove Sacred Shield's worth, but rather I am correcting your math and assumptions of how it works.

[Ronark]

Just laying out the facts without being a douche here.

First: This change is unlikely to go live.

Second: Correcting your math.
The [Sacred Shield] tooltip doesn't show it but this ability uses a spell coefficient equal to 75% of the paladin's spell power. Meaning your Sacred Shield will absorb 500 damage plus 75% of your spell power.

Assume you are an average holy pally with 2200 SP. Your Sacred Shield will absorb 500 + [2200 x .75]= 2150 damage every 30 6 seconds without any talent buffs. Using 12% of your base mana to mitigate 2150 damage/30 seconds is not really worth it. However, Sacred Shield also grants a Heal over Time affect from your FoL for 50% of its heal. IMO, that is worth it.

It appears that you are a prot pally. In decent gear you should have around 1000 spell power when buffed. Without the talent, 500 + [1000 x.75]= 1250 damage absorbed. Apply the talent for 3000 damage absorbed over 60 seconds.

Finally, I am not trying to justify taking this talent or prove Sacred Shield's worth, but rather I am correcting your math and assumptions of how it works.

Should be noted that a raid buffed Ret Paladin should have close to 2.2k SP, so the same formula above applies to them.

[Whoopzz]

I don't agree that it's OP considering the lack of tools in our toolbox. In arena, we've had our offense nerfed to oblivion, now our defensive spells are going too. How can any team justify bringing a defensive hybrid that brings next to nothing for utility?

So now were limited to 5s cleave teams, wonderful. Let's just remove the ret tree all together.

[Prentice]

Should be noted that a raid buffed Ret Paladin should have close to 2.2k SP, so the same formula above applies to them.

Agreed. I chose to use a couple of very basic examples just to provide the concept of this ability's mechanics. My average spell power as ret during raid combat is 2.4-2.5k.

[Cyros]

As holy i got about 3-4.2k SP in a raid. i guess its abit more powerfull then...
-But thats not the point!!!!

-Why are blizz forcing us to use HS every cd? its gonna be a pain to keep that up 100% and also keep your HL at a short cast...

-This change totaly ruins the 51/20/0 build! we gonna need to stack crit to get our holy shocks to crit as often as possible now... Why dont they put the cd oc the sc procc furter down in holy, and make it constant instead of a procc...

- And again, why are they trying to fix things that arent broken...
-Holy pallys dont need any nerfs in pve, really...

[mistersister]

The notes also say that Infusion of Light lowers it's cool down by 12/24 seconds, so Holy Paladins won't notice any change.

[Jahona]

Quote from Ghostcrawler in the Healing forums

As you can see, we are trying some different things with some paladin mechanics.

The Aura Mastery change (to 6 sec duration) is one we think is appropriate. If I had to guess, this one will stick.

We are trying some things with Sacred Shield to make it more of a Holy tool and less useful for Ret and Prot (without being totally irrelevant). I don't have a lot of faith that the implementation on the PTR is the one we'll go with for a couple of reasons, but our overall goal is to make Ret less tanky and the Holy tree feel like it's the right one to focus on for healing. I would expect a Sacred Shield change of some kind though.

I wouldn't worry too much on the Lay on Hands change at this point. I don't want to promise we won't change the spell for 3.3, but our intent was to revert the others only change before it went out to the PTR, which is why we didn't patch note it. We have already changed it back on our local builds.

The paladin class isn't just supposed to be for support anymore, but at the same time, the original intent for many paladin abilities was to help the group. Over time however they have contributed into making the paladin into a "one-man army," able to play offensively, defensively and heal without say the stance changing or shapeshifting or sometimes event talent specialization required of other classes. Many of the LK balance problems we've had with the class are because of that core issue.

With that said, we're just not sure a Lay on Hands change really accomplishes much from a balance perspective, while it feels bad to lose such an iconic ability. We just don't think the bang for the buck is there on this change, which is why we reverted it. But I'm not going to promise we won't touch it.

In fact, I'm not going to promise anything with this post. Happy Please don't dredge it up later to try and argue against any upcoming changes. I'm just trying to clear up some confusion.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...719002&sid=1#0

[Bob002]

The notes also say that Infusion of Light lowers it's cool down by 12/24 seconds, so Holy Paladins won't notice any change.

It's still a nerf since it's currently every 6 seconds.

[Synic]

It's still a nerf since it's currently every 6 seconds.

... does 30 - 24 not equal 6? I'm confused...

[physicalard]

It is not clear whether the 12/24 sec cooldown reduction is a passive part of the talent or a proc. If it is a proc on crit, then they are trying to force us to use HS every cd. And given we dont have 100% crit chance it would be a good nerf to ss for holy. If it is a passive part of the talent (which I think is being implied), then Holy pallys keep the same Sacred Shield we have always had.

[ewhenn]

I don't agree that it's OP considering the lack of tools in our toolbox. In arena, we've had our offense nerfed to oblivion, now our defensive spells are going too. How can any team justify bringing a defensive hybrid that brings next to nothing for utility?

This is my impression is well. If we lack offensive tools because we are supposed to be a "defensive" hybrid, but then lose all but 2 long cooldown defensive abilities, one that doesnt work against magic so it doesn't even help against spell cleave, how exactly are we supposed to be competative in arena?

[Kairu]

It is not clear whether the 12/24 sec cooldown reduction is a passive part of the talent or a proc. If it is a proc on crit, then they are trying to force us to use HS every cd. And given we dont have 100% crit chance it would be a good nerf to ss for holy. If it is a passive part of the talent (which I think is being implied), then Holy pallys keep the same Sacred Shield we have always had.

It is passive. "This talent also"

Meaning the TALENT will reduce the cooldown, not the proc.

[Jathro]

As holy i got about 3-4.2k SP in a raid...

lol

And yes - passive talent. So Holys won't notice a difference. Including Cyros, who's obviously gemming for spell power and is an idiot.

[Bob002]

... does 30 - 24 not equal 6? I'm confused...

I see what you're saying. The way I originally read the tool tip was it takes it down to 24 and then 12 seconds.

[Cyros]

lol

And yes - passive talent. So Holys won't notice a difference. Including Cyros, who's obviously gemming for spell power and is an idiot.

Lol, look at my armory... got 2.4k SP unbuffed, but honestly... how hard is it to get 4k Sp with 2 trinkets that procc almost all the time + full raidbuffed...
There isnt clarified if its passive or on procc yet, so no need to call me an idiot...
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...+Faire&n=Cyros
Im not hardcore or anything, but ffs dont call me a nub!
Jathro, grow up...

[Iselian]

Hate to say it, but 20 second duration with a 2 minute (120s) cooldown isn't almost all the time, nor is a 10 second duration with a (presumed) 45 second internal cooldown. If the presumption is wrong, one for two isn't bad!

[Zenaur]

"Ret less tanky"

lol?
i cant really tell if hes joking here with the state of rets in arena.
so squishy (BUT HEY WE CAN BUBBLE!!11!1!one!) comped to other melee while fighting casters its not even funny....

[Accuser.]

lol

And yes - passive talent. So Holys won't notice a difference. Including Cyros, who's obviously gemming for spell power and is an idiot.

hehe... he's also about 10% over the haste cap.

[Thallidomaniac]

Someone at AJ suggesting that the absorb bubble from SS to proc from Crusader Strike for Rets, possibly either with SS itself or a deep Ret talent. However, the 4 second CD on CS and the SS bubble proccing every 4 seconds maybe a problem with that, so perhaps it could proc off Judgements to prevent an OP 4 sec ICD in SS. I would assume Rets would take even an 8 sec ICD on SS more than the 30 sec one in the recent PTR build.

As for Prot, how about making the SS bubble proc off of either HotR or ShoR? This would make SS mechanically work the same way for Prot, as well as discouraging Prot healers from using it since they would have to be in melee range to get the bubble.