3.3 PvE Shadow: Clarifications?

[Annesh]

I've been running around the internet, refreshing the EJ thread, trying to answer a few important questions about the way we'll be gearing in ICC, so either I missed something or these questions just haven't been conclusively answered yet.

Everyone knows Haste is going to be valued higher than Spellpower, but is this going to be a balls-to-the-wall stack-it-high-as-it-will-go situation, or will there be a "soft cap" we'll be shooting for, where the value begins to drop off? I can see how once our GCD is 1.0 second flat, more haste will do nothing but reduce Flay channel time. Or will more haste always be a good thing no matter how much you get?

Are we going to be going so far as to gem for pure haste?

I've also read that once we have 4t10 and about 660 haste, we'll be pretty much dropping Blast completely. Thoughts on that?

[Bizatch]

haste is going to make our DoTs tick faster, this is the main change, something you seem to of completely overlooked.......

and in general its much better to use shadowpriest.com rather than EJ.

[greysin]

I've been running around the internet, refreshing the EJ thread, trying to answer a few important questions about the way we'll be gearing in ICC, so either I missed something or these questions just haven't been conclusively answered yet.

Everyone knows Haste is going to be valued higher than Spellpower, but is this going to be a balls-to-the-wall stack-it-high-as-it-will-go situation, or will there be a "soft cap" we'll be shooting for, where the value begins to drop off? I can see how once our GCD is 1.0 second flat, more haste will do nothing but reduce Flay channel time. Or will more haste always be a good thing no matter how much you get?

Are we going to be going so far as to gem for pure haste?

I've also read that once we have 4t10 and about 660 haste, we'll be pretty much dropping Blast completely. Thoughts on that?

SP will still be worth more than haste, but i think haste and crit will be on equal footing, maybe a slight advantage to haste

[harky]

Everyone knows Haste is going to be valued higher than Spellpower, but is this going to be a balls-to-the-wall stack-it-high-as-it-will-go situation, or will there be a "soft cap" we'll be shooting for, where the value begins to drop off?

Most testing is showing SP ahead of haste. There were a few tests that showed haste ahead, but they're suspect. It's still possible, but it's not a common and accepted fact at all. It's at best the personal opinion of a few people. Haste is however going to be more important than crit like most other casters (FFB mages don't count).

As far as the dropping of MB, for that to occur your MB must drop under a 1 second cast at which point MF gets priority. That doesn't occur until 50% haste. Takes around 1300 haste to reach 1 second and then each additional point of haste would benefit MF, but not MB.

[Kelesti]

Most testing is showing SP ahead of haste. There were a few tests that showed haste ahead, but they're suspect. It's still possible, but it's not a common and accepted fact at all. It's at best the personal opinion of a few people. Haste is however going to be more important than crit like most other casters (FFB mages don't count).

As far as the dropping of MB, for that to occur your MB must drop under a 1 second cast at which point MF gets priority. That doesn't occur until 50% haste. Takes around 1300 haste to reach 1 second and then each additional point of haste would benefit MF, but not MB.

Mmhmm. Looks like both red and blue slots will still stay with raw SP, but an SP/Haste gem for a yellow slot isn't a bad idea now. Dropping all your SP for either raw haste or hybrid SP/Haste still isn't the way to go.

[fabian]

Most testing is showing SP ahead of haste. There were a few tests that showed haste ahead, but they're suspect. It's still possible, but it's not a common and accepted fact at all. It's at best the personal opinion of a few people. Haste is however going to be more important than crit like most other casters (FFB mages don't count).

SP will still be worth more than haste, but i think haste and crit will be on equal footing, maybe a slight advantage to haste

http://www.shadowpriest.com/viewtopi...201781#p201781

You're half right, there are certain gear sets that will make SP better than haste. This is because haste has an awkward affect on dps. To give an example at 600 haste rating, haste is at a 1.31 PP value. At 700 haste rating, that PP value drops to 1.23, and at 800 haste rating, the PP value is not at 1.33, the highest value.

That means haste has a soft cap and sweet spots, which would mean that at a certain amount of haste, SP will be better.

What it means is that in 3.3, you're going to want to use simulators and spreadsheets more often. I personally can't wait for Cataclysm because this is getting way too complicated.

[Direshadow]

If you've been gearing yourself properly in Live atm, you'll notice a big dps increase when 3.3 hits. Haste affecting our dots means that our gear scaling has been improved greatly. From that point on, when you get a gear upgrade, you'll actually see results.

Unlike Live atm.

[harky]

Fabian those values are from testing done before the DP fix. They also ignore the way haste scales with itself. Some of the replies discuss that as well. As far as I can tell they're based on BiS T8 as well, instead of T9. That's further complicated by T10 level gear opening up.

[fabian]

Fabian those values are from testing done before the DP fix. They also ignore the way haste scales with itself. Some of the replies discuss that as well. As far as I can tell they're based on BiS T8 as well, instead of T9. That's further complicated by T10 level gear opening up.

I know that the post will not always correct, if you would give a summary of the posts, that would be appreciated.

[Annesh]

Yes, I'm basically trying to consolidate all the reports. I've seen that haste will be better than spellpower, I've seen that it won't. Most of the information I've read states that there will definitely be a point when we drop Blast from the rotation, but I'm trying to figure out what the math states as far as whether we go all out with haste or not.

Looks like the information is just inconclusive thus far.

[greysin]

Yes, I'm basically trying to consolidate all the reports. I've seen that haste will be better than spellpower, I've seen that it won't. Most of the information I've read states that there will definitely be a point when we drop Blast from the rotation, but I'm trying to figure out what the math states as far as whether we go all out with haste or not.

Looks like the information is just inconclusive thus far.

i spent all night dotting target dummies on my live copy, on a fully geared t9.5/chanted spriest premade, etc

my live copy, which does around 3k +/- on the heroic training dummy gained about 300 dps........i'm sitting at 10% haste and 2300sp with 20% crit

the 3ksp, 21% crit, 17% haste t9.5 premade priest did 4400dps

this is all with ZERO unintended mind flay clips, 95%+ dot uptime and no wasted MBs

as perfect as you can get

i tried more haste/less crit, more crit/less haste, more sp/less crit and haste, etc

everything i could think of

and really, not much changed

i just don't see how anyone with any type of gear is gonna get more than 400dps out of their toon when the changes go live

i was kinda depressed

the 1% mana regen per swp tick was nice, seem to have about the same uptime with more damage done

i was worried there would be mana problems, but there aren't

priests are still at teh bottom of the barrel though and with a little extra lag, it goes downhill from there

[scotty]

t10 is on the ptr? where?

[greysin]

If you've been gearing yourself properly in Live atm, you'll notice a big dps increase when 3.3 hits. Haste affecting our dots means that our gear scaling has been improved greatly. From that point on, when you get a gear upgrade, you'll actually see results.

Unlike Live atm.

it's not working out like that on the PTR

there is a slight difference, but everything is still ahead of spriests in the t9.5