Paladin Tanking in ICC discussion

[Lexxe]

YES! Finally Blizz are bringing an OP tanking class down to a regular tanking class. Palas nd Warriors (more traditional tanks) have been massively thrown away by DKs, and now, becos we cn block, we may be more attractive for ICC!!! THANK FUCK!!! BLIZZARD DID GOOD... THEY WANTZ COOKIEZ??!!

I don't know if you knew this, but paladins are the current most prefered tanks right now. DKs have pretty much fallen to the wayside since 3.2's nerf to their health(at least on my server), and I've seen paladins being called for more often than not in ToC.

[Ronark]

I don't know if you knew this, but paladins are the current most prefered tanks right now. DKs have pretty much fallen to the wayside since 3.2's nerf to their health(at least on my server), and I've seen paladins being called for more often than not in ToC.

DKs have more EH than Paladins do.

[mattepatte]

YES! Finally Blizz are bringing an OP tanking class down to a regular tanking class. Palas nd Warriors (more traditional tanks) have been massively thrown away by DKs, and now, becos we cn block, we may be more attractive for ICC!!! THANK FUCK!!! BLIZZARD DID GOOD... THEY WANTZ COOKIEZ??!!

Im sorry to hear youre retarded.

[plagueshard]

YES! Finally Blizz are bringing an OP tanking class down to a regular tanking class. Palas nd Warriors (more traditional tanks) have been massively thrown away by DKs, and now, becos we cn block, we may be more attractive for ICC!!! THANK FUCK!!! BLIZZARD DID GOOD... THEY WANTZ COOKIEZ??!!

Are you retarded? I think you might be.

[Lexxe]

DKs have more EH than Paladins do.

This is true, but I've seen DKs used less and less in raids, to the point where I've seen more than a few DK tanks quit playing their DK in lieu of leveling a paladin so they can actually tank again.

[Deleted]

This is more of a problem with the wow community, than the actual class. That and about 80% of DKs have NO IDEA how to play there own class.

[KandyCane]

YES! Finally Blizz are bringing an OP tanking class down to a regular tanking class. Palas nd Warriors (more traditional tanks) have been massively thrown away by DKs, and now, becos we cn block, we may be more attractive for ICC!!! THANK FUCK!!! BLIZZARD DID GOOD... THEY WANTZ COOKIEZ??!!

..What? Death Knights have thrown away Paladins? As far as I know, Paladins are currently the best tanks available(getting a nerf in the next patch, with Sacred Shield becoming useless for anyone but Holy Paladins) with thier Divine Protection, Lay on Hands, Ardent Defender and Judgements of Light(Yep, I'm only doing 10-mans), and the sheer fact that they look so awesome that everyone looking at them instantly gets a 3% higher chance to be critical hit.

That's my experience anyway; My Paladin seems to last a lot longer than any other tank I've raided with(yay for solo-tanking Twin Valkyrs and Kologarn... Koralon? That fire guy... after 40%).


Also, I don't think I'll be changing my gear that much. Sure, my dodge will be reduced to 10-15%, but does that mean I should get 5% more parry or 1000 more Block Value?

Anyway, we'll see what happens. I'm tired. I'm going to bed. Bye.

[Kyrstlol]

So much premature whining being done in this thread.
Dunno where to start really, but here we go...

Block vaule is capped at 2750, so its not exactly a massive reduction when ur getting hit for loads by a boss.

No, block value is not capped at 2750, only the damage addition to SotR is.

Thats the thing though: You WONT be hit for a large hit dealing 20k damage in 1 hit every 4 seconds, but rather you will be hit for 5k damage in 4 hits every second- Meaning that the base value of Blocking will increase.

Yes, kinda, although I'd say 5k hits would be waaay too small considering the kind of HP numbers we're seeing on appropriately geared tanks. Expect something more in the 10-15k range.
As for the other post about equivalent 60% avoidance, no, block is not an avoidance stat so in your example the druids and DK's are still better off.
As it is currently, druids are sitting roughly at dodge cap, DK's have enough parry avoidance and innate dodge to make up for the discrepancy.
Unless any of you plan on gearing so terribly that your base dodge is <20% nothing at all changes. Pushing dodge up will still be the cheapest way to increase avoidance unless you have already outbalanced parry and defense.
It's like this

I have, standing in Dalaran
20% parry
30% dodge
10% miss
60% total avoidance

Now, say that 50 dodge rating will give me 1% dodge, and 50 parry rating will give me 0.7% parry (numbers are arbitrary).
if I add 50 dodge rating I get
20% parry
31% dodge
10% miss
61% total avoidance - 20% dodge = 41% avoidance

if I instead add 50 parry rating I get
20.7% parry
30% dodge
10% miss
60.7% total avoidance - 20% dodge = 40.7% avoidance


Nothing Changes!!! Except at extremely low geared dodge numbers where your normal dodge <20%. If you're in gear that can handle ICC, once more, Nothing Changes.

Edit:Spelling

[Mmrdkm]

ask any healer which tank is easier to heal provided "same" conditions apply to them, so to speak. As a Holy paly, i would say i rather heal a prot paly over any of the other classes, since they are by far more predictable, than say a DK, which can get 2 shoted at any point, regardless of EH, and to a lesser extent Warriors and less towards Bears.

Back on topic though, Any thoughts on how to absorb this effect, and turn it around in our favor!, and i do understand that along with the CotT the boss will hit more often for less. Which is great as more predictable damage is easier to control. My main concern would be, something more leaning towards, how do we gem/chant/gear in order to maintaqin current stats yet take less of a hit while in front of this kind of effects?

[Deleted]

This is true, in reality nothing will change. Booses are being adjusted accordingly, net change of nothing...
If anything they just gave stamina stacking a boost. +30 in every socket ftw.

Bosses will hit, more often, but for less damage. So stamina is definatly ftw.

[Needonboots]

This is true, in reality nothing will change. Booses are being adjusted accordingly, net change of nothing...
If anything they just gave stamina stacking a boost. +30 in every socket ftw.

Bosses will hit, more often, but for less damage. So stamina is definatly ftw.

Stamina was already ftw

[Deleted]

Still wish they would do somthing about the compleat lack of expertise and hit on high level gear...Most friggin annoying.

[Ronark]

Still wish they would do somthing about the compleat lack of expertise and hit on high level gear...Most friggin annoying.

Paladins dont need that much Expertise, plus we get 10 free Expertise.

[Composure]

If we're going to be getting hit more, does that mean Reckoning will be more useful?

[Ronark]

If we're going to be getting hit more, does that mean Reckoning will be more useful?

In theory yes- In practicality no, since 99% of mobs will be DUH mobs.

[Sunshine]

say, all tanks will have say 60% avoidance.
Warriors and Paladins have 30% Dodge, 10% Parry, 20% Block, and 60% reduction from Armor.
...
When the Icewell Radiance hits, Druids and DKs loose more avoidance per point than Warriors and Paladins, simply because they have less ways to mitigate attacks made against them.

What? No. Block is not avoidance. Take that out of the picture. Non-shield tanks make this up in other ways (SD, armor, whatever).

Say all tanks have 60% avoidance, in that non-druids have some combination of dodge and parry (say 30% of each), and druids have dodge (60%).

Icewelll radiance reduces dodge by 20%. This means (according to the numbers above), druids now have 40% dodge, non-druids have 10% dodge and 30% parry. So all tanks now have 40% avoidance, right on schedule.

Druids have more dodge, which means we'd be more affected by a change that, say, cuts your dodge in half (or for a more real example, something that increases the amount of agi / dodge rating per point of dodge). But that's not what this is -- it's just a flat amount off the top.

[Cheezyweezy]

What? No. Block is not avoidance. Take that out of the picture. Non-shield tanks make this up in other ways (SD, armor, whatever).

Say all tanks have 60% avoidance, in that non-druids have some combination of dodge and parry (say 30% of each), and druids have dodge (60%).

Icewelll radiance reduces dodge by 20%. This means (according to the numbers above), druids now have 40% dodge, non-druids have 10% dodge and 30% parry. So all tanks now have 40% avoidance, right on schedule.

Druids have more dodge, which means we'd be more affected by a change that, say, cuts your dodge in half (or for a more real example, something that increases the amount of agi / dodge rating per point of dodge). But that's not what this is -- it's just a flat amount off the top.

why is this so damn hard for people to understand?
its baffling

[Ghul]

1% dodge will still be 1% dodge. meaning if radiance takes away 20% of your dodge, and you are running around with dunno lets say 31, you will still have 11% dodge left. and if you get an 1% dodge upgrade itll be.... yes 12%! omygawd dodge will only loose its worth when youre dropping below 20% without socketing it (and i hope you already dont socket for dodge).

[Sunshine]

why is this so damn hard for people to understand?
its baffling

Number one misconception.

Number two misconception is that it now makes sense to avoid dodge like the plague and focus on parry or something else, which is an equally flawed assumption for exactly the same reason.

[BDF]

Seems to me that If dodge still has a milder DR curve than parry you'd still look for gear with it. We'll wait to see if block value does indeed have alot of value....if so I have a 2800BV unbuffed set sitting in my bags atm