1. #1

    Chill of the Throne: DK threat nerf ?

    Hi everyone

    As everybody has already seen it, ICC will have its own SWP Radiance: Chill of the Throne.
    I'm not going to tell if it's good or not for damages taken, every tank (whatever its class) will suffer in the same way.

    The concern for us is about the loss of threat from RS.

    I've done some simulations taking into account: (for a 2H blood dk)
    • Character
      • dodge and parry
      • average damage of swing and RS
      • weapon speed
      • hit and expertise
    • Boss
      • hit speed
      • combat length

    With all those things taken into account, you have an increase of 56% of threat from swing, a decrease of 40% of threat from RS and a decrease of swing+RS threat of 25%. It's really huge but it's not over.

    If you consider that in 3.2.2, swing is about 13% of your total threat and RS is about 29%, the effective result is only a decrease of the total threat of 4.32%. It's not that huge.

    Remember that the simulations were made with average values of a 2H blood tank. I can post later the sheet of calculation if you want.
    Quote Originally Posted by phred754 View Post
    "Nerf Rock. Paper is fine."
    - Scissors
    Originally Posted by Nakatoir (Blue Tracker)
    Off-spec healers such as Shadow, Elemental, Paladin and Laser Turkey

  2. #2

    Re: Chill of the Throne: DK threat nerf ?

    Not really especially when tanking multiple mobs

    if you dodge 2 times before your swing timer on trash or bosses you dont lose anything

    while at first it would appear so in reality i agree with ghostcrawler

  3. #3

    Re: Chill of the Throne: DK threat nerf ?

    I know about that. All the calculations I have done is for a boss so it's about a single target threat.

    It is when you will be fighting a slow hitting single target that the reduction of RS will be the highest. That's why I made the simulation in this case to show that the threat reduction will only be of 4.32%.
    I made it to show people saying "F*** blizz, u nerf dk tank threat once again" that even in the worst case, the decrease of threat is really low.
    Quote Originally Posted by phred754 View Post
    "Nerf Rock. Paper is fine."
    - Scissors
    Originally Posted by Nakatoir (Blue Tracker)
    Off-spec healers such as Shadow, Elemental, Paladin and Laser Turkey

  4. #4

    Re: Chill of the Throne: DK threat nerf ?

    Few things I would like to say first. . .
    1) No this is not a nerf to tanks.
    2) Yes this is part of the Icecrown mechanics
    3) Yes Death Knight threat will be lower (Single Target)
    4) Yes there will be less Rune Strikes
    5) Yes some threat will be added back in from melee attacks replacing lost Rune Strikes.
    6) No I do not like this either and hope they change something.

    Now here is a WWS report of me tanking Anub'arak showing the amount of Rune Strike hits and the amount of times I dodged or parried along with threat status.
    http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat...5131124#threat

    As you can see the total amount of Rune Strikes that occurred were 40 (hit+crit+miss)
    Dodged: 33 (25.7%)
    Parried: 27 (21%)
    Total: 60 times Rune Strike would be usable (if Rune Strike was able to be used every time)
    40/60 == 2/3 actual amount of Rune Strikes over theoretical amount.

    Now if this is taken to always hold account (2 out of 3) then if my dodge % was reduced to 5.7% it would have happened 7 or 8 times (7.3 actual but will use 7) depending on how you want to round.

    With this you can add parry+ new dodge and get: 27+7 == 34
    Now apply the 2/3 and you get 22.666 (so 22 or 23 again I will use 22) times you will hit with Rune Strike.
    Comparing that to the original and that is nearly 50% reduction (45%)

    My Rune Strikes total threat during this fight was 567,665. 55% of this would be 312,215. Now take this and get the new total threat 1,728,006 - 255450 = 1,472,556

    Now this is not the actual amount of threat because I have not added in the extra threat from melee attacks that would replace the lost Rune Strikes yet.

    18 extra regular melee attacks would happen so the total damage from my melee attacks before the addition would be 105,204 for 49 hits (I missed once that's why it is 49 and not 50)

    105,204 / 49 = 2147 average damage per hit
    2147 * 18 = 38,646 + 105,204 = 143,850 new total damage of melee.
    Threat wise 179,118 / 105,204 = 1.7 x threat multiplier
    143,850 * 1.7 = 244,545 new total melee threat
    244,545 - 179,118 = 65,427 extra threat

    Going back to the total threat:
    1,728,006 - 255450 + 65,427 = 1,537,983
    1,537,983 / 1,728,006 = .8900 * 100 = 89%
    100 - 89 = 11% decrease in total threat

    If anyone wants to check if all my math is correct please do and I do know this fight is using Anub'arak and not any Icecrown bosses but it is here just to show that the threat decrease will not be as high as some people think but there will be a bit (11% in Anub'arak's case)

  5. #5

    Re: Chill of the Throne: DK threat nerf ?

    There was a post linked on page one of MMO-Champ the other day where GC said there should be no significant threat loss. Can't find it now, but basically he said that since bosses will hit faster and weapon swings for two-handers are so slow to begin with, there shouldn't be a net decrease in RS opportunities. Of course that remains to be seen.

  6. #6

    Re: Chill of the Throne: DK threat nerf ?

    same as above.

    a 3.8 weapon speed means that at max you will put one RS each 3.8 secs (not counting haste here). if we pick windfury (since as tank i doubt we have haste on gear lol) that's a 20% faster swing, so 3.04 weapon speed. i think we will dodge at least once every 3 secs. otherwise, fail tank/fail gear.

    for one handers, frost tanks, speed is 2.60 ideally. with windfury again means an effective 2.08 weapon speed. again, at max a RS every 2 sec, and i think again we will dodge at least once every 2 secs.

    so no threat nerf.

  7. #7

    Re: Chill of the Throne: DK threat nerf ?

    Erm... even it if IS an 11% threat nerf, are equally geared DPS actually that close to pulling threat? If not then they can, you know, USE those abilities for threat dumping (Tricks, Vanish, Feign Death, Invisibility, Soul Shatter, erm... battle rez for the rest? :P )

    Edit: If DK threat falls significantly behind other tanks, they'll buff it. They can do that, you know. And they want to keep things fairly even, so it's no hassle for them to tweak some number in a database if they say "hey, players can only rune strike 80% as often, let's buff rune strike's damage by 20%".
    Ultralisk-Nagrand / Táne-Nagrand / Wuggles-Nagrand / Koras-Thaurrisan / Dieselsun-Thaurissan / Bezoar-Thaurissan

  8. #8

    Re: Chill of the Throne: DK threat nerf ?

    Rune Strike: Threat generated by this ability increased by approximately 17%.

  9. #9

    Re: Chill of the Throne: DK threat nerf ?

    woot, now that RS has been hot fixed, we should be better off then we were XD

  10. #10

    Re: Chill of the Throne: DK threat nerf ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelias
    Rune Strike: Threat generated by this ability increased by approximately 17%.
    Blizzard may be smarter than we think.
    Crusader Revengica <Parody> of Bonechewer US

  11. #11

    Re: Chill of the Throne: DK threat nerf ?

    And the fact that most DK tanks clip 2/3s of their Rune Strikes doesn't seem to matter at all D=

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