Confused about amor pen.

[Solakid]

Me and my Gm are having an argument on How ARP works, i claim that after all the armor reducing effects are applyed. Theres a new base amount of armor, and you need 100% with your runestone/ gt proc to get through that new amount.

His logic is, that the sunders/fire/etc, leaves the target at 80% or the armor, so you only need 80% arp with the proc to get through it.
Whos right?


Edit for clarification

Me: Boss has 1k armor, sundered takes effect, -20%.
now hes at 800 of his original.
But now that new amount, is all of his armor, so now its still 100%.

Him: boss has 1k health, 20% sundered lost, now hes at 80% of original, so now you only need 80% ARP to hit through the rest.

I tried telling him arp and sunders dont stack.

[ashaman01]

i believe he is, all numbers are based on origional armor value. If they werent many equasion it the game wouldnt work because you would be using an incorrect formula.

[madcow]

You

[xcite]

you, sunders and stuff like it reduced the armour, lets say 20% that would make a 10k armour boss have 8k armour and that is what you need to penetrate

[SavageJ]

Hit up wowwiki and ElitistJerks for all your ArP information needs, but to sum it all up :

You need 100% armor pen even after a warrior puts up sunders / rogue Exposes armor, and a druid Faerie Fire's.

The amount of Arp you have stacks with Battlestance if you're an arms warrior, so if you have say, 40% Arp from gear / gems, you have a total of 50% while in Battlestance.

Sunders and FF take 25% of a mobs total armor. Whatever he has left is what you are trying to negate. If you want to negate all of what he has left after Sunders and FF, you need 100% Arp.

This doesnt make Sunders and FF useless though, you still ignore more armor with those in addition to your armor pen. It just doesnt add up like you would think.

I cant point you to the exact post, but it was posted by GC how this all works. Try to google it or search for it on the WoW forums, its there somewhere.

[Vongimi]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-hunter/a-guide-to-arp-for-hunters!/

[Sidorenko]

Armor REDUCING effects, do not act as "penetration". Mob has 1k Armor, sunders up REDUCING 20% to 800. Then Penetration kicks in

[Intwine]

You are right.

The amount of armor that remains after the armor reducing skills and the part that blizz determines thru a math formula that cant be ignored is the bit that is considered as 100% and thus effected by arp.

A boss will never have 0 armor concerning a player, there will always be a part of the armor that you can't reduce/ignore.

[Criterion]

You are right. Your GM is wrong.

[Lokke]

If it gets to game-mechanics, never, NEVER IN YOUR GODDAMN LIFE believe a gm. I could cry my eyes out concerning what I already had to read from those guys...

As already (correctly) said, ArP counts in AFTER all those -armor effects, even after the warrior throw with (additional) -20% or even Battle Stance (which is the fail of the year in my opinion...).

Of course this calculation was still WAY too op (i wonder if the forum would've taken all the whine-posts if we did things like that with spell pen while having all mobs have a base of ~200 resi (<- that would balance magic atks btw, although it's way to simple for blizz to realize ) and they had to nerf it so you need more ArP for 100% now

[Lysah]

Tell your GM to step down and let someone with a brain lead the guild.