Ugh at position I'm in atm. (Tank)

[telemain]

26 is soft cap Exp from the back, not the front.



And yes, I do think missing 0 times is better because we have this attack... that replaces our auto attacks that has an added modifier for threat that CAN'T be dodge or parried. Missing hurts us more then getting parried/dodged.

<sigh> Do you have any idea WHY it is the soft cap (and btw, it's the HARD cap from behind)
It's because mobs can't parry from behind.
From the front the first 26 points remove dodge and parry. Then up to the hard cap it removes just parry.
From the back the first 26 points remove dodge. You don't need to go to the hard cap because mobs can't parry from behind.

To your second point, here's a fun fact. There's a hell of a lot more attacks than just auto attacks and rune strikes used to build threat. Getting dodged/parried on a bunch of heart strikes can hurt threat quite badly both in terms of runic power and straight out damage/threat.

The fact that you don't seem to realize what the 26 cap is and why it is a cap shows that you aren't really that familiar with the expertise mechanics. Your reduction of DKs to auto attacks and rune strikes is an oversimplification that ignores key issues.

[Raptorg]

Having 10.5% parry avoidance feels good man..

[Cirayne24]

Sorry Soft was a typo, it's not like we all haven't made mistakes when typing. Just like your post says "from the front the first 26 points remove dodge and parry." I know what you meant and I know how EXP works, it's just been a long day and I didn't catch it in my read though. Also I miss read some of your posts... sorry, my fault.

And for the record, I'm far from arguing with you about the value of exp. My only argument is I believe its more valuable to get Hit capped before getting soft capped on exp.

I know I'm over simplifying DK tanking to two attacks. I know how the mechanics of DK tanking works, and do it quiet well. But I'm lazy atm and trying to show you why I believe not missing will benefit more first then missing and getting parried if you are at Exp cap.

[Raptorg]

I believe it's more valuable to get both.

[rabbimojo]

I believe when people are feeling lazy they should say "Hey wait, these people have no interest in hearing my half-baked replies, and I have no obligation to tell them anyways. I will just not post until later when I can actually communicate effectively."

[Cirayne24]

I believe when people are feeling lazy they should say "Hey wait, these people have no interest in hearing my half-baked replies, and I have no obligation to tell them anyways. I will just not post until later when I can actually communicate effectively."

I see what you did there. :P

And I'll take your advice, and talk more tomorrow when I have more sleep.

[sethers656]

Expertise is much better than hit for any tank because it affects dodge + parry up until 26.

DW frost tanking will pull a lot more TPS than 2H.

Then just get some better gear and u will be fine.

[Jevandyr]

Is it worth sacrificing the parry mitigation and hit/expertise loss to DW frost tank and get more TPS?

[Raptorg]

I believe when people are feeling lazy they should say "Hey wait, these people have no interest in hearing my half-baked replies, and I have no obligation to tell them anyways. I will just not post until later when I can actually communicate effectively."

But it sure as hell kills the time!

[sicness]

Sorry Soft was a typo, it's not like we all haven't made mistakes when typing. Just like your post says "from the front the first 26 points remove dodge and parry." I know what you meant and I know how EXP works, it's just been a long day and I didn't catch it in my read though. Also I miss read some of your posts... sorry, my fault.

And for the record, I'm far from arguing with you about the value of exp. My only argument is I believe its more valuable to get Hit capped before getting soft capped on exp.

I know I'm over simplifying DK tanking to two attacks. I know how the mechanics of DK tanking works, and do it quiet well. But I'm lazy atm and trying to show you why I believe not missing will benefit more first then missing and getting parried if you are at Exp cap.

How can it possibly be more valuable to get hit capped before soft expertise capped when expertise is obviously worth twice as much before it's soft cap? That makes no sense. If you have a chance to hit, miss, dodge, and parry when you attack a boss all at 1% (for example) expertise is worth twice as much as hit, it's simple math.

It's pretty easy to adjust to as well, if you're fine on health in threat gear start gemming with the stam/exp gems in the pure stam gems' place. You'll see a considerable difference in threat when you can reach hit and hard exp cap, even though I play a warrior expertise and hit effect me the same way. At minimum you want to be at expertise soft cap.

[Burger]

Honestly you really should go blood. The other specs are vaiable, but blood is simply king when it comes to survival and threat. Constant heals from runestrike, runetap, a better cooldown, Will of the Necroplis, and higher single target threat are amazing. Yes you lack in AoE, but you can still Tank any AoE fight just fine. Its about as good as a warrior AoE threat wise, if they can do it, you can too. Frosts cooldown is alright, but lackluster when you compare it to vampiric blood. Blood is a slightly harder spec to play, you need to time your self heals, improvise your rotation, and work a bit harder on AoE. (initially, Blood's sustained AoE is perfect) You also get 3% more health, scaling very well with gear. (and it scales with your cooldown as well) Frost is better when you are at 30k HP tanking heroics, and naxx. But the scaling of it is no where near blood, as the cooldown is based of armor, something you don't get much more of after a certain point. While with Vamperic Blood, you have about 38k unbuffed, (your health + 3%) and far higher raid buffed 45k+. And that goes higher with gear, meaning your cool down gets higher with gear, and it scales with your healers gear. Blood is just too good to pass up. If you want to play Frost thats fine, but for this patch you will be better off with that spec.

[telemain]

How can it possibly be more valuable to get hit capped before soft expertise capped when expertise is obviously worth twice as much before it's soft cap? That makes no sense. If you have a chance to hit, miss, dodge, and parry when you attack a boss all at 1% (for example) expertise is worth twice as much as hit, it's simple math.

His point is that 1% hit > 1% less parry because rune strike cannot be dodged or parried. It is a valid point, and it's why hit > expertise after the soft cap. But it does not make hit twice as good as expertise, thus expertise comes first.

[sicness]

His point is that 1% hit > 1% less parry because rune strike cannot be dodged or parried. It is a valid point, and it's why hit > expertise after the soft cap. But it does not make hit twice as good as expertise, thus expertise comes first.

I get that, and it is a valid point due to the amount of usage rune strike becomes as threat but my point still stands, due to all other abilities not having the dodge and parry immunity, that hit is worth less before soft exp cap.

[Jonisawsom]

How about you guys just agree that he should try to get 26 exp and hit capped for the best results eh? It's already been stated that getting exp capped is not worth it, but getting the soft cap/dodge cap (whatever you want to call 26 exp for a tank) is very helpful for increasing threat and dps. So is hit cap. Do both, then go for stam.

Anyway I just had a question/suggestion. Would picking up the 2h weapon specialization in blood be worth the 2 points? I'm probably wrong but I thought all specs (minus DW obviously) picked that up. Also thought subversion was good to pick up. Endless Winter and Unholy Command are where I'd take the points from personally since they aren't really spectacular for pve.