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  1. #21

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    what it means is they are fing up pally tanks yet again.

    and what they mean by same cd is if i cast hop on someone i cant use loh on them.
    it doesnt give forbearance to the user but to the person it is cast on.
    Signature Supplied by Emaluri
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

    If you are trying to AE tank and a bad dps is attacking the wrong target and dies, we call that justice.

  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire kakefarmer's Avatar
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    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rurikar
    The only thing overpowered about Lay on Hands is glyphing it for 8k Mana as Holy.
    How is that OP? Blizz obviously intended for this to be something to do in order to regain mana. Because if they didn't want it to be that way, they would: 1) never have made the glyph or 2) hotfixed it a long time ago...
    Summergale 85 Paladin - Holy/Prot dual specced.
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  3. #23

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    changes are commin, no mather how we feel about it.

    -> speakin for myself -> as pallytank -> that is doing pve content & never rapes specs & gear to get into a gymp state used in pvp -> this isnt the first change (lets not say nerf cause i really dont see the changes as nerfs anymore) that hase been brought on by, out of the 'PVPBOX' kind of thinking

    BoS & the stam & str issue - protpvphealing is the easy example to make a reference to

    Blizz says that the changes to come, dont find theire roots in a pvp based issue. - but if i read GC's posts i beg to differ (sadly enough)

    this is part of what hase been said in the previous GC-posts

    Paladins too defensive in PvP
    I'll add it's also a problem where paladins as a whole are too defensive and not just the Protection spec ones. You see people
    describing fighting a Retribution paladin as a three phase boss fight. You might get them down, but then they can reset the
    fight with Lay on Hands. You get them down again and they bubble and heal. If you are up against a Prot paladin, you should be concerned with their capacity to take hits. If you are up against a Ret paladin, you should be concerned with how much damage they should deal. You should not, generally, be nearly as concerend about the Prot's ability to self-heal or the Ret's ability to tank you.


    change us anyways u feel the need to, i believe its needed to make ICC a fun place for all classes of tanks & ... ofc the rest of the group aswell

    but i find it to give me a twisted feeling to see some of the lore typical abilities (witch i love more for the use of it then for the lore part of them) to get a overhawl, for fixing pvp related Q to the Q.
    but havin almost more effect on the pve community then on the pvp community

    pvp community will keep finding ways to use the classmechanics to theire benifit, im 100%sure of that.
    if they can they ll do it from every type of class
    but they ll prefer to get imbalanced stuff out of hybrids, cause the base for any kind of use is in theire reach

    well come what may, im ok with whatever i ll have to deal with
    even going back to being the trashtank & nothin else but the trashtank

    aslong as there is enough trash to tank where im raiding atleast ^^

  4. #24

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    So if a random ret pally throws a LoH my way, I can't use bubble wall for 2 mins while tanking?

    ty blizz.

  5. #25

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollow_Sorrow
    go for t9 4 pc then ;p

    wee im having 30 sec time for another retardadin to throw loh at me
    Quote Originally Posted by MildCorma
    I found myself in a magical setup the other week and my damage dropped through the floor like a 90 year olds tits

  6. #26

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinyknight
    Building on enraged regeneration angle that I mentioned in the other thread, perhaps it could function much like enraged regen (maybe a bit worse in terms of healing since you can cast it on others) and make the Holy talents give it some secondary effect such as damage reduction. This would give holy pallys a "tanking cooldown" in a similar vein to holy priest's Guardian Spirit, which would be nice for raid composition because it would reduce the occasional overreliance on one class (when we were first trying Mimiron we had to use 3 or 4 Holy Priests for the GS, which meant one or two shadow priests had to respec).
    Thing is that Holy Pallies already have an available CD that does something like that - Hand of Sacrifice, bubble-sac is essentially the equivalent of a pain-suppression. I don't think that bringing 4 holy priests to Mimi was really about the GS - did you really need it up on the tank near 100%? Raids stacked priests for firefighter more for the (glyphed) holy nova spam than for GS.

    Turning LoH into a targeted Frenzied Regen just seems like more crappy homogenization to me Unfortunately you may be right, it may be the only approach they can take - but I really hope they can produce something more imaginative.

  7. #27

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollow_Sorrow
    go for t9 4 pc then ;p
    oooh and this change comes in 3,3 so t9 will be out of date for it
    Quote Originally Posted by MildCorma
    I found myself in a magical setup the other week and my damage dropped through the floor like a 90 year olds tits

  8. #28

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marithas

    wee im having 30 sec time for another retardadin to throw loh at me
    tell them not to use LoH on you, are they brainless?

  9. #29

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Yah I too am concerned about being able to LoH a Tankadin - it's my healing "Oh shit" button because lets face it - holy shocks 9k crit heals just don't do it.

    I can't see this change going live though.

  10. #30

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nienniora
    since a picture is worth a thousand words

    Duct tape fix is bs
    Yah I'm getting sick of the forebearance "fixes".

  11. #31
    I am Murloc! Nienniora's Avatar
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    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    since a picture is worth a thousand words

    Duct tape fix is bs

  12. #32

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by cappytoi
    tell them not to use LoH on you, are they brainless?
    well if its a guild run or well a run where ppl actually tend to use their brain for something other than calculating how dumb they were over the whole day, holydins will cast a heal instead a loh, rets spin in circles anyway and you try not to have 2 pala tanks in raid so you should have plenty of time enjoying you bubblewall


    ....in theory
    Quote Originally Posted by MildCorma
    I found myself in a magical setup the other week and my damage dropped through the floor like a 90 year olds tits

  13. #33

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    Yes, but it is using it that is the problem. Use it too early and you waste it, use it too late and you are dead.
    Isn't that like most tanking cooldowns though?
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  14. #34
    I am Murloc! Nienniora's Avatar
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    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryik
    Yah I'm getting sick of the forebearance "fixes".
    its not just the Forbearance ''fixes'' its everything we had for this last year, everything is rushed and they dont even think what will happen...
    Bubble is center to all problem, LoH was just a minor problem
    and
    Blizz just answer like : ''but its iconic to the class''
    its fail Blizz get up your ass and do something

  15. #35

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon
    Isn't that like most tanking cooldowns though?

    most talking cooldowns last for some time (for like last stand that heals you for abit and after the healers fill u up your health is higher than usual, while loh just fills you up and thats it)


    i give loh to healers, true story
    Quote Originally Posted by MildCorma
    I found myself in a magical setup the other week and my damage dropped through the floor like a 90 year olds tits

  16. #36

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollow_Sorrow
    take my LoH away right now but answer 1 question please !

    you blizzard promised us an utulity added to CS and a wondrous 11pt prot tree talent.






    where are they??
    they gave us divine sac, while bad for anything except raids (maybe even pvp on some scale) i think its enough
    but cs utility is insta wep swing and....
    Quote Originally Posted by MildCorma
    I found myself in a magical setup the other week and my damage dropped through the floor like a 90 year olds tits

  17. #37

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marithas
    most talking cooldowns last for some time (for like last stand that heals you for abit and after the healers fill u up your health is higher than usual, while loh just fills you up and thats it)
    Exactly. There's no way that you would rely on LoH to keep a tank alive through, for example, Plasma blast if you had any other available CD in the raid. It might help, or if it hit just as a HL hit from a healer it might do nearly nothing.

    It's more like an old school tanking CD that is used reactively after bad avoidance RNG - but in wrath bad avoidance RNG leaves you dead if you didn't have a holy pally spamming HL. So most raids have that holy spammer, and a reactive tanking CD is somewhat irrelevant.

    GC himself said recently that tank CDs have become something highly scripted into the encounter, and those are exactly the situations where LoH is weak.



  18. #38

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    The biggest problem with this change is that every major paladin cool down will now cause forbearance. Warriors, druids and DK tanks can use all their cooldowns in conjunction or rapid succession if the situation calls for it. Pallies however: needed avenging wrath to stay ahead of that warlock? better hope you don't take any spike damage, or that garmok's debuff doesn't stack one too high on you after the other tank's taunt misses. Did a holy pally misclick? better hope you're good on threat and health and that the predictable damage spike isn't coming soon.

    LoH may be OP in some situations (I've soloed things I really shouldn't have by rotating cooldowns and using LoH in the middle of that rotation), but making every major pally ability mutually exclusive from the others can't be the way to go here.

  19. #39

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by agir215
    The biggest problem with this change is that every major paladin cool down will now cause forbearance. Warriors, druids and DK tanks can use all their cooldowns in conjunction or rapid succession if the situation calls for it. Pallies however: needed avenging wrath to stay ahead of that warlock? better hope you don't take any spike damage, or that garmok's debuff doesn't stack one too high on you after the other tank's taunt misses. Did a holy pally misclick? better hope you're good on threat and health and that the predictable damage spike isn't coming soon.

    LoH may be OP in some situations (I've soloed things I really shouldn't have by rotating cooldowns and using LoH in the middle of that rotation), but making every major pally ability mutually exclusive from the others can't be the way to go here.
    perhaps people were not intended to solo situations like you described...

    looks like everyone will simply have to take into consideration cooldown management and utilizing which specific survival ability is most fitting for the situation instead of having a trusty back up should you choose poorly in either terms of time or selection.

    hopefully blizzard in the future will rework some abilities such as loh that have become so situational their use is somewhat awkward and intent behind the ability hazy. until then this seems like a suitable work around, and outside of soloing things it's really a minor issue.

  20. #40

    Re: Lay on Hand messing up the tank?

    Any argument against LoH from a pve perspective is a veiled, idiotic attempt to try to justify nerfing it without acknowledging that it was specifically changed for pvp.

    Argue against it in BGs. Sure.
    Argue against it in 1v1 and world pvp. Ok.
    It has no affect on your never-been-balanced e-sport.

    Argue against it in a pve environment? You're reaching. You can slowly diaf for all I care if you want to make this argument.
    I quit the game, and this happens:
    "You can now mount while under the skeleton effect of the Noggenfogger Elixir!"
    Are you effing kidding me?!?!
    ******
    Remember 3.0.......

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