Achievements and you...

[PWDirect]

well we don't know half the time that we would be mid raid replacements - usually get told after invite that x boss(s) are down.

What has been found out a few times lately is that the RL is asking for the certain achievements then he / she gets found out that they don't even have the relevant achievements *cue tumbleweeds*

[Gray_Matter]

well we don't know half the time that we would be mid raid replacements - usually get told after invite that x boss(s) are down.

Thats just nasty. On our server they always advertise on trade something like "LF2M DPS TOC25 at factions - link epic and achieve"

What has been found out a few times lately is that the RL is asking for the certain achievements then he / she gets found out that they don't even have the relevant achievements *cue tumbleweeds*

This I have seen a couple of times. There is no excuse for a RL trying to get a free ride.

[Pium]

I find it highly amusing that people now want [Epic] for heroics.. If you had [Epic] why the fuck would you want to goto a heroic (excluding the daily).

Now if i pug a daily or voa/ony 10 (cba with Ulduar or ToC), I ask for random achievements e.g. Key Master or World Explorer before I invite and the amount of wispers I get as people can't see the irony cheers me up no end.

[PBitt]

Well I don't pug, as all of my raiding is done within my guild, however, I do side with what the OP is getting at. Sorry, but its really not that hard to have VoA, ToC, Naxx etc complete. Plenty of terribads have ToC achievement, its a rather faceroll instances as long as you have 10/25 people that have a vague idea of what the encounters actually do. There is no way to tell how good or bad a player really is until you play with them, but the armory is your best bet. At least there you can see how much effort and knowledge they have of their toon.

[Powerogue]

i could've raided TOTGC and have all 245 ilevel loot, and i'd STILL be turned down to kill archavon because i didn't ever do the instance.

i think it was the point where people realized that the bosses are pitifully easy to understand, and the achievements told them little about competence (they were probably the 1 who died at the beginning while the other 24 carried on) so now my server doesn't really do achievement checks. ;D

[Skullmaster]

i think it was the point where people realized that the bosses are pitifully easy to understand

You never know, the increasingly easy bosses may just be Blizzard's way of showing everyone that abusing the achievement system like that is wrong ;P. Or maybe there's more than one can catch in just a glimpse .

[Catdancing]

Whats worse is that I am sure half the people "requiring" the achievements probably don't have them yet.

I've actualy seen people ask for the achivement for a particular boss the first week those same bosses became playable. Which meant, if you could show the achivement, you were already saved to that particular raid.

And of course, when you see someone asking to link achivement, you can always armory his char. And check if he has. If he doesnt? then ask that person to link you his :P

[Deleted]

When I'm forming a pug to onyxia or toc, I ask for full achievement and stats. They whisper what I asked, I invite. Some idiot whispers something "wise", like... well, exactly what the OP said. I just ignore those whispers and take someone who linked what I asked. Why on earth should I waste my time on guy like him when I can just skip him and invite someone else? I have never failed pugging onyxia25 or fully clear toc25. The system just works.

And about "but you can't get the achievement without the achievement!". Your point is exactly what? I ask whoever I want to take, why should I take someone who doesn't have it but is "quick to learn" or something, when I can just take someone who has already cleared it? Granted, if someone says he has it on hes main and has good stats, I'll take him. Other than that, no. "3k non-retarded dps is better than guy dies to fire!" True, but 6k non-retarded dps is even better.

Btw, if you want in so badly and know you won't fail (because usually people who fail gets kicked), just link fake achievement and your stats. Noone cares if you just earned the achievement if the kill was smooth and you did good dps/tanking/healing. If you didn't, you most likely got kicked anyways. That, or you can whine how it's morally wrong and other bullshit. Go with the flow and adapt, it saves time and nerves. Alot.

[viR]

I run weekly ToC10/25 raids and I have to tell you, achievements mean nothing, at all. Also most of the time it's pretty easy to understand that if you have never been to toc10/25 you don't have any gear from there, when you CAN choose between a toc10/25 geared guy or a naxx25 guy who says he knows tactics the choice is easy.

But even then I always invite this guy that link achievement on his main and comes with his alt that is good geared, people that come with no achievement at all saying they know tactics or blabla most of the time fail at some point, granted people with achievement also fail, every week I can see noobs with "incinerate flesh" running to the walls as if they were going to explode and making it hard for the healers to reach them, people not switching auras at twins or people not going on the frostground at anub when he is underground and they're being chased, thing is when you invite them with all the achievements you think they won't fail, but some do, so.. given all the achievements, 245 gear and all that they fail, you don't think a guy without achievements in 213+ gear is going to do it any better.

[sethers656]

On my server, Skywall US, this isnt as big as a problem. Even the few people that ask for acheivements, I would just tell them Ive done it multiple times on my main and I know the fights. That is usually fine for them...

If you are really having problems, make your own group, armory everyone that join, get the achievement, and then u can get into all the pugs you want....

That doesnt seem too hard to me....

[Gigajot]

On my server, Skywall US, this isnt as big as a problem. Even the few people that ask for acheivements, I would just tell them Ive done it multiple times on my main and I know the fights. That is usually fine for them...

If you are really having problems, make your own group, armory everyone that join, get the achievement, and then u can get into all the pugs you want....

That doesnt seem too hard to me....

I don't invite people to MY groups because they probably won't do the dps i want them to do, this may sound abit harsh but i want smooth fast clears and don't feel the need to carry people, except fro friends and guildies

[Offhand]

If there were no achievements, people would (and have) begged for means to check players that want to join their PuG
Now that there are achievements, it pleases some and displeases others.

Previously, you had to armory someone and see their gear and make sure they knew how to gem/chant. Now that process has been simplified so people get turned down faster and bitch about it.

EDIT: I don't care if you were turned down access to a pug because of an achievement. "LFM KZ, must have four piece t6 and at least one piece of gear off Kiljeadean,". People will always be excessively picky, and I don't care if you can't just fall into a full pug because of that. Start your own damn group.

[Spl4sh3r]

Lately I've started to think about achievements and what they represent. I play on Frostmane EU, I'm a casual player, I have 2 lvl 80's and I pug Onyxia10/25, VoA10/25, ToC10/25 every week and sometimes OS25. When people make raids, they often, if not always, ask for various achievements - some more outrageous than others, yet I decided in a rebellious outbreak that I wont link my achievements anymore. I have all of those needed, but after having played in so many pugs where people get in on their achievements only to play like crap, my conclusion is that achievements say absolutely nothing about me.

So, I started talking my way into raids instead, as I thought 'Surely people who lead raids aren't retards' - but I'm sure you can all guess that I was wrong. Some people are reasonable enough, but after explaining that I wont link achievements, but they are free to inspect or look me up on armory if they must have a visual confirmation that I'm not a complete noob, they still turn me down because they must see achievements.

I guess, what I'd like to see here, is your point of view on the matter. Do you lead raids and do you only invite those with achievements or have perhaps encountered something similar to what I'm describing here? Before you start trolling or flaming, I do lead my own raids and instead of asking for achievements, I ask if they know the fight and I let people know that if they fail, they may be replaced - I don't ask for achievements myself.

Hope you'll join me in this discussion and help keep it troll+flame free

If I decide to start a raid and choose to invite those with lets say full Naxx achie for a Naxx raid, then there won't be any exceptions so if I ask for an achievement to be linked its linked or you would be declined, since why should my work take longer than it must if you can just as easily link achievement in the first whisper

So a raid leader decides the rules, you follow rules or you aren't in the raid

[Alorn]

If I decide to start a raid and choose to invite those with lets say full Naxx achie for a Naxx raid, then there won't be any exceptions so if I ask for an achievement to be linked its linked or you would be declined, since why should my work take longer than it must if you can just as easily link achievement in the first whisper

So a raid leader decides the rules, you follow rules or you aren't in the raid

Of course, and you'd be perfectly within your rights, without any questions asked, that you may require achievements. My point is, however, that if you just uncritically pick up anyone off the street, anyone who link their achievements, you're bound to meet a lot of people who got their achievements by chance or by joining a strong group. What I'm arguing for, is to forget the stress and desire to get everything done as fast as humanly possible, read what people write with a critical eye and invite people who would actually be a good addition.

Since I wrote this post, I've not shown any achievements to get into pugs. I write in the comment of lfg tool, that I don't show achievements and when I announce in channels that I'm lfg, I warn them that I wont be linking achievements. Some people ask anyway and when I tell them once again, sometimes they ignore, sometimes they ask why and other times they invite me, maybe because they find it reasonable enough.

Last week I was fortunate enough to have a friend ask me if I wanted to join ToC10 as tank. I had 3/5 achievement from when I ran a social pug with a few people, but it's been a good while since then and I was holy. I had 5-10mins to respec, sort hotbars, re-glyph and find my tank armor, all the while thinking I was doing something really crazy, since I hadn't tanked since TBC and even then, not for very long. Anyway, we started, I offtanked the whole instance, no wipes and we cleared the instance in a relatively short amount of time. I didn't have achievement and I had very little experience in the instance, yet I was still able to do the instance without fucking up (pardon the language).

I still claim that achievements are relatively worthless if you have the time to make a raid with reasonable people and not just people who are looking for their next easy piece of loot - but in order to experience that, I fear one would need to be in a guild. I'll remain the same though, and stick to joining pugs without linking achievement. Maybe one day, I'll meet other people on my server, people who think like me and have the same priorities.

Thanks so far, for a great discussion - I've read most of the replies and you all bring forth some good and valid points!

[Príckenöveri]

Most achis suck and shouldnt be used the way they are :-\
/thread

[Xenryusho]

Previously, you had to armory someone and see their gear and make sure they knew how to gem/chant. Now that process has been simplified so people get turned down faster and bitch about it.

EDIT: I don't care if you were turned down access to a pug because of an achievement. "LFM KZ, must have four piece t6 and at least one piece of gear off Kiljeadean,". People will always be excessively picky, and I don't care if you can't just fall into a full pug because of that. Start your own damn group.

dude gtfo, you need at least 5000 posts and a color avatar to post here... Stupid baddie trying to get into this thread.