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  1. #41

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alenko
    MASSIVE edit:
    did math wrong and just realised it ad dont feel like doing it again so I'll just say this. if mp5 is soooo much better than crit now, why not just stack it? I mean both crit and mp5 are better regen than Divine Plea. so why stack int now for HL if mp5 is that much better?
    The short answer is that people do try to stack it when possible, but current itemization makes it somewhat difficult. Just as they nerf crit, suddenly there are lots of pieces with haste/crit on them. Also, while MP5 is now better than crit due to the Illumination nerf and relatively better than Int due to the Divine Intellect nerf, Int is still the best stat overall for a HL paladin. Int scales with raid buffs and talents. It provides SP, Max mana, and Crit. I don't have the exact figures in front me, but 100 intellect, for which you could buy ~45 mp5 with the same allotment item points, is worth about ~80 mp5. That is after you factor in kings, DivInt, DP on cooldown, Arcane Torrent for Belfs, Repleshment, and the extra crit it provides. And that doesn't even factor in throughput gains due to SP and, marginally, crit.


  2. #42

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lebeau
    Wrong.

    The 12 crit rating is less regen than tuskar's vitality (7mp5).
    for reg modes it doesn't matter what u have on your boots, put spirit for all i care. in hard mode 25 toc unless u are a class with speed boost in talent tree, you are required to have speed/stam enchant to boots in our guild to raid (a couple exceptions but not many). it's only 7%, but that could mean the difference to eating icehowl and getting free.

  3. #43

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alenko
    MASSIVE edit:
    did math wrong and just realised it ad dont feel like doing it again so I'll just say this. if mp5 is soooo much better than crit now, why not just stack it? I mean both crit and mp5 are better regen than Divine Plea. so why stack int now for HL if mp5 is that much better?
    int>>>>mp5>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.crit

    int gives more mp5 from plea and replen, so stacking mp5 is ptless, just get more int. stacking crit to regen is bad. 100% spam casting HL will get u 14mp5 per 1% crit. most stats on items will give 40--80 crit tops, so 1-2% crit while some have 20-45 mp5. per gear score, mp5 will always be better then crit cuz you tend to have more mp5 on each piece then u could get from the crit gear.

    all of u who still "stack" crit for regen, good job at reading and doing the math 4 months ago.

  4. #44

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by exriel
    The short answer is that people do try to stack it when possible, but current itemization makes it somewhat difficult. Just as they nerf crit, suddenly there are lots of pieces with haste/crit on them. Also, while MP5 is now better than crit due to the Illumination nerf and relatively better than Int due to the Divine Intellect nerf, Int is still the best stat overall for a HL paladin. Int scales with raid buffs and talents. It provides SP, Max mana, and Crit. I don't have the exact figures in front me, but 100 intellect, for which you could buy ~45 mp5 with the same allotment item points, is worth about ~80 mp5. That is after you factor in kings, DivInt, DP on cooldown, Arcane Torrent for Belfs, Repleshment, and the extra crit it provides. And that doesn't even factor in throughput gains due to SP and, marginally, crit.

    if I'm doing the %'s right
    -100 int = (100 * 1.10 (divine inellect)) = 110 + kings = 121 int (1 int = 15 mana) = 1815 mana.
    -this gives 453.75 mana from DP which is 37.8 mp5
    -from replinishment thats 18.15 mp5 (1% of max mana ever 5 secs)
    -total is 55.95 mp5

    agian Im not 100% sure the kings buf is a full 10% since Divine int is a percent buff (have never been sure) but yeah I agree with the point on raid buffs as the 100 int would only be 34ish mp5 base line, almost doubling the mp5 output if int w/ raid buffs (and screw belf racials, human ftw). also another reason I say crit > mp5 for HL is the fact that it gives you crit, ie bigger heals which mp5 doesn't give obviously.

    now if you want to talk FL spam then yeah I say mp5 greater than all.

  5. #45

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by darthceltic
    int>>>>mp5>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.crit

    int gives more mp5 from plea and replen, so stacking mp5 is ptless, just get more int. stacking crit to regen is bad. 100% spam casting HL will get u 14mp5 per 1% crit. most stats on items will give 40--80 crit tops, so 1-2% crit while some have 20-45 mp5. per gear score, mp5 will always be better then crit cuz you tend to have more mp5 on each piece then u could get from the crit gear.

    all of u who still "stack" crit for regen, good job at reading and doing the math 4 months ago.
    um learn to read, no one said stack crit....

  6. #46

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alenko
    MASSIVE edit:
    did math wrong and just realised it ad dont feel like doing it again so I'll just say this. if mp5 is soooo much better than crit now, why not just stack it? I mean both crit and mp5 are better regen than Divine Plea. so why stack int now for HL if mp5 is that much better?
    I said that mp5 was better regen than Crit and you're asking why we don't stack mp5 instead of Int. Do you not see how your question and my comments have nothing to do with each other?

    Int is our number one stat. The margin is not so wide as it was in the last patch, but it is still sizable. My comments were not about that. We were talking about the variable stats that come on gear. Haste, mp5 and Crit. From a regen pov, mp5 gives more mana than Crit per ilevel point. From a throughput point of view (taking Crit for the crits), it is suboptimal to just getting spellpower for more consistency. This means that gear with Crit on it is worse than gear with any other stat. Haste/mp5 is our preferred itemization.
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  7. #47

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    and original poster. It would save a lot of time with this thread in wasted talk we have seen many of times if u would put what your raiding goals are for the spec and style you are building.

    if u said you want to do 10 man, as u are in 10 man raiding guild only, and don't think you will ever see a hard mode. then it might be best if you stack all sp in red. sp/haste in yellow. and sp/mp5 in blue sockets, spec into prot for better ss. and be a nice 95% fl caster.

    if u want hard mode 25, you need int over every other stat, the correct epic gems, meta gems, enchants, and trinket(both int).

    flash spam is best suited for 10 man content, and maybe even 25 regular. hl spam is for hardest content in the game and basically overkill in most 10 man content.

  8. #48

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alenko
    um learn to read, no one said stack crit....
    so i can't add in the regen stats in order for us? they asked why we dont stack mp5? because int is better, as i just pted out.

  9. #49

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alenko
    if I'm doing the %'s right
    -100 int = (100 * 1.10 (divine inellect)) = 110 + kings = 121 int (1 int = 15 mana) = 1815 mana.
    -this gives 453.75 mana from DP which is 37.8 mp5
    -from replinishment thats 18.15 mp5 (1% of max mana ever 5 secs)
    -total is 55.95 mp5

    agian Im not 100% sure the kings buf is a full 10% since Divine int is a percent buff (have never been sure) but yeah I agree with the point on raid buffs as the 100 int would only be 34ish mp5 base line, almost doubling the mp5 output if int w/ raid buffs (and screw belf racials, human ftw). also another reason I say crit > mp5 for HL is the fact that it gives you crit, ie bigger heals which mp5 doesn't give obviously.

    now if you want to talk FL spam then yeah I say mp5 greater than all.
    so, u have 5 epic int gems giving us 1815 mana to start, and 55.9mp5 in raid. where 5 mp5 gems will give u 50 mp5 and not mana to start or any other things that int does (crit, sp) and with the math 5 crit gems will get u about 35mp5 in best case hl spam conditions but u don't get why for regen purposes
    int>>>mp5>>>>>>>>>>>>>crit?

  10. #50

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    TO OP: You have been given a lot of good advice as to gemming/gearing/spec and that type of thing, my only suggestion is to learn to play your class in the situation you are in. If you only spam holy light because someone said HL spam build was awesome, u obviously dont have the skill to play a max lvl toon in end game content.

    its all about situational awareness
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  11. #51

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    On my pally i have 40k mana raid buffed and int flasked if i feel like it, int is the way to go and HL (duno about "spamming" but def should be the main healing ability as well as keeping up SS and the occasional fol to refresh the hot). Currently my guild is on H anub and the other Hpally just spam fol during p3 as well as with beacon up.. well lets just say the tank is close to dying constantly... now i know wat some ppl would say "you heal anub more the more hp u have", but in the case of tanks.. it is likely to get unlucky hits and dies. My gear is the best you can get so far, i try to balance out the stats pally rely on (haste/sp/int/crit(get it from items so not much "balancing" there..)). i wouldn't gem sp bcoz there's not much point if you do say 40% overheal and 60% overheal... lul. Int is the best gem to get, i wouldn't get mp5 plate gear if can be avoided bcoz if u use the rotation on ur cds right, crit you get from items is more valuable. Though i have to admit, until i've seen what ICC's boss fight healing is like, i think i'll hold back gemming int any further and maybe work on sp/haste bcoz i don't go oom in fight anymore (apart from anub if other healers isn't puling it off >.>). As for my build, the original 51/5/15... lol

  12. #52

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cronic420
    TO OP: You have been given a lot of good advice as to gemming/gearing/spec and that type of thing, my only suggestion is to learn to play your class in the situation you are in. If you only spam holy light because someone said HL spam build was awesome, u obviously dont have the skill to play a max lvl toon in end game content.

    its all about situational awareness
    1. who are u talking to?

    2. how would u know? as u just cleared toc 25 on the 17th of oct and haven't done hard mode at all.

    i have no issue with people not in end game content giving advice, but it seems odd somebody not in end game content (25 heroic toc) giving advice as to how to heal it.

  13. #53

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by darthceltic
    1. who are u talking to?

    2. how would u know? as u just cleared toc 25 on the 17th of oct and haven't done hard mode at all.

    i have no issue with people not in end game content giving advice, but it seems odd somebody not in end game content (25 heroic toc) giving advice as to how to heal it.
    1) Apparently you dont know what "TO OP" means, ill school ya a sec. "To the original poster" aka the guy who started the thread.. there we understand now?

    2)Despite not clearing 25 TOGC, i do have 2/5 TOGC on 10 and i have full cleared twice on my buddies Disc Priest.

    On me giving advice... considering this kid hasnt even cleared 10 TOTC on normal, and ive done 10...25... and some heroic, i think i have a lil more knowledge then him.

    at least my post had some sort of value to it, you just happend to see me mention end game content, got your elitist e-peen a lil hard, and had to post something completely irrelevant to the topic at hand to make me look like an idiot.. congratufuckinglation
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  14. #54
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    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cronic420
    TO OP: You have been given a lot of good advice as to gemming/gearing/spec and that type of thing, my only suggestion is to learn to play your class in the situation you are in. If you only spam holy light because someone said HL spam build was awesome, u obviously dont have the skill to play a max lvl toon in end game content.

    its all about situational awareness
    I have read all the advice written here, and i'm aware that my gear isn't suitable to pull off this.
    I was purely interested in how it worked and what u gemmed/enchanted/specced.
    Summergale 85 Paladin - Holy/Prot dual specced.
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  15. #55

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    Sorry OP but im extrememly lazy to write stuff since everything i write will just be almost copied from a website. Instead, lemme give you a good website that is dedicated to holy pallies.

    www.theholypaladin.com

    Sorry about the laziness, but thats me :P
    I guess I'm back? Sighhhh....

  16. #56

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    havnt bothered reading most of everyones posts, as they just seem to be either showing off or making out they are the greatest with nothing to back it up.

    So, HL spam build is incredably gear dependant. It relies massivly on your mana pool being very large (and therefore divine plea will regenerate more mana).
    Gems: Int, Int, Int and some more int
    Enchants: Int, Int, Int and a little more int
    This seems excessive but im still not quite able to pure HL and keep beacon up and im sitting on 37.2K mana in raid.
    As for specs i use spec 1 on my profile http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...sus&n=Dahlvash

    To make the most of this spec you need to keep track of divine plea and Divine Illumination.
    Dont be affraid to use divine plea, yes it fookes your healing but you will still be doing 12K+ heals, assuming you have the gear to use the spec.

    For heroic modes, holy light is simply a must, you just wont get anywhere with flash of light. But for normal modes FoL should be fine.

  17. #57

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alenko
    did math wrong and just realised it ad dont feel like doing it again so I'll just say this. if mp5 is soooo much better than crit now, why not just stack it?
    I already did the math for you here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-pa...39/#msg1652039:

    "-It takes 2.5 critical strike rating to equal the itembudget statcost of every 1mp5 on gear.
    -1% Crit = 46 critical strike rating
    -If chaincasting a 1.2 second HL (to produce the most ideal scenario for an argument FOR crit)
    1% crit = 14mp5. So. 3.3 crit rating = 1mp5 with illumination for HL users.
    -If chaincasting a 1 second Flash of Light 1% crit = 5mp5. So 9.5 crit rating = 1mp5 with Illumination for Flash of Light users.

    In short, it takes more of an item's budget to get equivalent returns in Mp5 from crit rating than just gearing for mp5 directly. 32% more costly for Holy Light users, and 280% more costly for Flash of Light users.

    Illumination was nerfed in 3.2 because the developers felt that it made crit (which they always viewed as a throughput stat) give more regen than the stat they made specifically for regen (Mp5). This was absolutely true. At the time mp5 consumed 20% more of an item's budget than it does now, and crit gave twice the regen it does now. Crit was superior to Mp5 in every single way.

    The problem however is the hybrid nature of critrating when illumination is taken into consideration. HL paladins couldn't care less about the throughput nature of Crit as HL heals for more than enough even if it doesn't crit. Which is why HL paladins are shedding Crit like a winter coat and picking up all the haste/mp5 gear they can (I'm looking at you Mail). Flash of Light on the other hand doesn't need the regen from crit so much as the healing increase. Let's face it non crit Flashes aren't impressing anybody. It won't save any lives that any of the other 5 healing specs can't cover themselves."

    All Paladins should first gear to hit the haste softcap. From this point:

    -HL Paladins should gem int for maximum regen. Priority in gear selection after haste softcap has been achieved is Haste/Mp5 > Haste/Crit > Crit/Mp5. Holy Light doesn't need spellpower just more haste to overcome the long castime, and more importantly regen.

    -Flash of Light Paladins should gem spellpower for maximum throughput since their weakness is throughput. Flash doesn't suffer from mana overconsumption, nor does it suffer from cast time issues. Gear priority once haste softcap is achieved is Crit/Mp5>Crit/Haste>Haste/Mp5. Due to fact that your main spell Flash will always be softcapped you'll want to avoid haste like the plague.

  18. #58

    Re: Holy light spamming builds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dahlvash
    havnt bothered reading most of everyones posts, as they just seem to be either showing off or making out they are the greatest with nothing to back it up.

    So, HL spam build is incredably gear dependant. It relies massivly on your mana pool being very large (and therefore divine plea will regenerate more mana).
    Gems: Int, Int, Int and some more int
    Enchants: Int, Int, Int and a little more int
    This seems excessive but im still not quite able to pure HL and keep beacon up and im sitting on 37.2K mana in raid.
    As for specs i use spec 1 on my profile http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...sus&n=Dahlvash

    To make the most of this spec you need to keep track of divine plea and Divine Illumination.
    Dont be affraid to use divine plea, yes it fookes your healing but you will still be doing 12K+ heals, assuming you have the gear to use the spec.

    For heroic modes, holy light is simply a must, you just wont get anywhere with flash of light. But for normal modes FoL should be fine.
    Finally a post that I can relate my own experiences with.
    Nice post with only the necessary info for the OP. That he's not geared enough for it and providing a direction to go to get started.
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