Fylth's Sub Spec.

[fylth]

I have seen a pile of people in here asking about the Subtlety Spec. I am going to try and explain things the best I can about it, and how it works for me and can possibly work for you. this will be from a Battleground point of view

Part 1: The Spec
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...Q,rXpOe-,10505

Part 2: The Gear *just what I use so you can get an Idea of where I am coming from
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ermoon&n=Fylth
yes, I pvp with my pve gear on, no I don't care what you think because I still cut through suckers with their fancy pvp shit anyways.

Weapon Choice Trinkets and Poison: Daggers. the main focus of Sub Spec is Ambush. If you have more luck than I do, I'm sure you aren't running around with a stabber from Grobb. So find yourself a nice heavy duty MH and stick some Instant poison on that bad boy. Load up some Crippling Poison on your OH. why no Mind Numbing or Wound? because if your doing things right most of what you are about to beat the shit out of won't be around long enough for heals to get them (aside from trees and the like, but you aren't that stupid to try and beat up a tree by yourself are you?)

For your trinkets I suggest anything that ups your damage right out. chance on hit is nice but you need max murder power for HUGE burst and you need it now, not 3 hits into an assault.

Part 3: Explanation of some choices, like Hemo
Hemo: with Slaughter from the Shadows, Hemo becomes cheaper than SS or Shiv. also grants you a little extra oomph! to your attacks. I like to use Hemo before I get a backstab in.
Imp. Ambush and Waylay: you never want your Premed-shadowstep-ambush to not do any crits, otherwise you aren't going to get the Waylay debuff on your enemy. Waylay is like a pre-crippling poison and also slows melee attacks a bit. 8 seconds until your target is about to wait for a spirit rez.
Fylthy Trix: You will want a 5 min CD on your Prep in a battle. and also works good if your playing with another rogue, get those ToT's off more frequently. yes, it works good with another rogue in a BG, or a warrior
Honor Among Thieves: You need this for CP generation. HAT also gives you an extra CP if YOU get a crit. some people may not know this.
Shadowdance and Slaughter from the Shadows: I have seen many rogues not take these two talents and dump the points into Assassination. They are just cutting themselves short. Slaughter from the Shadows is what allows you to replace SS and Shiv for Hemo (you still use shiv on a situational basis) and reduces backstab and ambush costs, which in turn makes Shadowdance even more deadly. Shadowdance is the 'second part' of the Sub spec, so to say. I will explain that later.
No Initiative? No Problem ! With HAT and premed you will be fine for CP generation. Premed-Shadowstep-Ambush and your full on CP ready for a vicious Eviscerate.
No Lethality: Only works for CP generating skills that do not require stealth. Shadowstep-Ambush requires Stealth. (duh)

Side Note: Thistle Tea is VERY handy, so get some

Part 4: Applying your dagger to someones back. or, Who said I shouldn't run with sharp objects?
Alright this is my general rotation for killing:
-Premed
-Shadowstep-Ambush
-Eviscerate
-Hemo once or twice
-Backstab
-Kidney Shot
from here you can begin the Shadowdance. the BEST way to use this odd skill is to make sure you have enough energy for a whole onslaught. Drink a thistle tea if you need it. smile, than hit Shadowdance*.
-Ambush
-Ambush
-Eviscerate
-Ambush
(if you got the time and energy before Shadowdance is up, you could hit them with a Garrote or a Cheapshot)
*if your victim is moving around too much start with a Cheapshot
And remember each Ambush crit will apply Waylay, slowing the bastards down even more. woot

Part 5: Final Tips and such

Use a Premed-Shadowstep-Ambush as your opener

Always use your Vanish and Evasion ability's when you can, you specced into Fylthy Trix for that reason.

Garrote/Rupture warriors and pesky rogues as usual but try to focus on keeping them under control. with a bleed on them your Gouge isnt going to help you pool some energy. but since you have a quick vanish timer due to Elusiveness and Prep, you could vanish andstart the assault again. for warriors, depending if they are really heavy, they may require lots of bleeding. for rogues use Shadowdance to garrote the bastards and keep them stunned because that's how they like it.

THISTLE TEA. don't leave home without it.

chasing a rogue down while your both unstealthed but you cheapshot him when you get there really makes them blow a gasket. ( I have had a few people make characters on my server and tell me I'm a newb after busting their face over and over)

Shadowdance can also be saved for when your Kidney Shot is on cooldown. there is no cooldown on Cheapshot! muahahahaaaa *cough, hack wheeze*

With Shadowdance you can keep a caster silenced for at least 4-5 seconds by just using Garrote.

You could probably spec into Cheat Death if you got a pile of Resilience.. but I think its a waste of 3 points.

Lastly, this is just how I play. It works really well for me. feel free to change out some talents and such, but I don't think you will get the same results. I'm not sure if I missed anything but I just wanted to kind of give a basic run-down on how this odd spec works. hopefully this has been helpful to everyone. I am going for a huge spliff than going to go punchout some Allies. For the Horde !

:fylth: - Feathermoon

[Patty]

Nice that someone starts this..

However.. Like mentioned in a previous thread.. The only time a Sub spec will kick ass is every 45 sec when you are able to spam ambush people in pve gear.. And thats about it..

I did see you mention from a BG point of view.. I just want to throw in that its also the only place I would ever use it..

[fylth]

I find I don't have trouble against people with PVP gear. they just require more attention.

[Patty]

I find I don't have trouble against people with PVP gear. they just require more attention.

Im probably also comparing it alot to the Mutilate spec right now.. Which is by far in a MUCH better state right now.. But again.. Thanks for getting this down in a thread.. might reduce the number of Sub threads with people asking for help

[Brannick Bane]

I agree with the up thread. It is so possible to take this spec to 2000 rating or just use for world or BG . Its so possible to kill holy paladins in say 4-5 seconds. Most people don't expect sub rogue because all rogue right now are Mutilate.

try it out..Even mut rogues fall to sub rogues.

Just keep in mind high crit
And if you use t9 set or relentless gem changing is easy to keep high atkp and crit.

[Ian]

Any skilled player can take any spec/comp to 2k.
That doesn't negate the fact that sub is inferior to mutilate in too many ways.
This is a great thread for people interested in a sub off-spec for fun or what-not, but there is a reason mutilate is cookie-cutter. It is just plain better.

[fylth]

I still disagree with Nay-sayers. try it for a while yourself..

[wannaspoon]

shs ambush can be fun in bg's destroying cloth and such but between shadow dance it feels really weak. backstab and hemo just hit so low and don't build combo points nearly as well as mutilate.

[Vonlego]

For BGs this is a fun spec, unfortunately other specs are more efficient. Sure the 10k+ zerkered ambushes on the 15k HP lock are fun, but the truth is a cheap shot muti evis would have done the trick too.

Personally I'd go 27/0/44 and use a slow weapon if I went sub. Backstab is a flawed ability and will never crack plate the way it needs to. Yes I tried a spec similar to this with a Ilvl 258 dagger. It was fun for awhile, but too much work to land a kill and plate never blinked twice.

Keep in mind that with out at LEAST 2/5 into improved poisons talent, wound poison does more damage than instant poison and should be used. This is the reason combat rogues use wound poison during raiding.

[fylth]

I should also mention that I use Shadow Armor for cloak for extra stealth buff and Tuskarr Vit. on my boots for a little extra speed. Also, don't forget about Stealth Pots as well. good for when you know you are going to do battle with other backstabbing rogues