The "elitists" point of view

[veemon_ro]

I've been reading these forums for a while and have noticed that alot of players do not understand why the people who go "make this game harder" or "stop giving wellfare epics" do this.

First of all let me be clear

-It's not for penis enlargment
-It's not because they want something above other people.

The main reason is, that these are gamers who enjoyed the time when the devs would make content that THEY liked for the gameplay and not content that is made based on the average Joe who plays the game.
While personally, I don't think that the average Joe should be left out, I do belive that making content for his skill level is not the answer either.
Obviously average Joe dies in fire alot, he whipes the raid and he can't do good dps, so the devs then make encounters where fire doesn't hurt as much, it doesn't whipe the raid due to one person's mistake (teron, twins, shade)
and they make sure that bosses have insanely high enrage timers or no enrage what so ever.

Of course average Joe isn't happy with farming nax like the rest of us, so he needs to get the gear from the 5 mans and then jump right into ICC.
Even then, average Joe might not be able to hop right into ICC so he needs an entire tier of raiding designed for him (TOC) so that when ICC comes average joe can have a front line seat to kill arthas.

Now this is nice and fun for mr. Joe, but some gamers play games to get a sense of chalange. Yes ITS A VIDEO GAME, so that means its not a movie or a book.
Games as old as Mario used to chalange you by making you jump over a gap or over a carnivorous plant, and failing to do so would result in loosing the game.

Now the point I am making is that Mr Joe here, is taking away the chalange in the game, turning this more into a movie rather then an actual computer game that requires skill, such as starcraft, warcraft 3 and even how wow USED TO BE.
In fact I highly doubt that any one who liked TBC can like WOTLK due to the fact that both of them are like yin and yang, completly oposite to one another.

But anyway, I digress.
The fact of the mater is that you might think Blizz really cares about mr joe and they want him to see content, but in fact its bullshit.
Right now they know they can put any crap they want in the game and people will be happy. And if people aren't happy, then they have a vast army of fan boys, that regardless of the complains or issues brought up they will give the "cool story bro" or "obvious troll is obvious" etc, when in fact they are the real trolls.

Personally there used to be a time when this company stood for quality above all. They wouldn't release ANYTHING in the game unless they were 100% happy about it.
Right now they release bad crap left and right.

-They weren't happy with nax as they themselves said it was too easy. How ever that was SIX months of too easy.
-They weren't happy with TOC and yet again, they've released it in the game.
-They're not happy with the curent hard modes as they keep changing the system every single patch etc.

All in all the "elitists" are upset that the game is taken a course to the "monney maker" wich drasticly affects issues such as gameplay and enjoyment.
Yet some of these people don't want to quit yet. They hope that voicing their opinions might finally reach a dev's ear and get them to act.
The reason some people do it on mmo champion rather then the real forums, is because it's painfully obvious that the devs only read the US forums and not the EU.
Because of that some people might hope that some one from US who feels the same as they do, might know what to write on the realm forum to get a devs atention

[Bloodstream]

[Chiruru]

^ what he said

tl;dr (more or less)

if the game is too easy for you, go do totgc 25 man.

and link your armory for prove that you did it, mr. elitist

sorry that everyone can play this game now, not only people without life.

[Shiira]

All in all the "elitists" are upset that the game is taken a course to the "monney maker" wich drasticly affects issues such as gameplay and enjoyment.

Actually we are very happy with how the game is now.

Casuals have their normal modes, we have our hard modes.

Gearing up our alts and offspecs has never been easier.

I think you have confused elitists with whiny terribles who think they are good.

[General Vezax]

You're mixing up the average joe with baddies

Pro - people who clear up to Anub in ToGC
Average - People who arent retarded but dont do hardmodes extensively
Bad - lolimastandinthefireanddo5dps

And the elitists have their hard content, Anub ToGC

[nightcinder]

i love this

[veemon_ro]

If its TLr then you're mentaly retarded.
Seriously if you're on a forum with the purpose to read threads but this is too long for you, then your parents might be quite sad that they've got an iliterate child on their hands.

As for doing TOCG25... thats just my point. TOC shouldnt exist in the game in the first place. Aparantely its an instance to gear people for ICC.

Why would you waste and entire tier of raiding for that?
They could of added ajzol nerub or a vyrkul raid, you know something as awesome as ulduar was. But instead you get a big circle with bosses throwned at you.

[Volten]

In fact I highly doubt that any one who liked TBC can like WOTLK due to the fact that both of them are like yin and yang, completly oposite to one another.

Well, its something I had assumed considering the fact that BC was in a demonic/hellish setting and WotLK is in frozen wastes.

[sicness]

If its TLr then you're mentaly retarded.
Seriously if you're on a forum with the purpose to read threads but this is too long for you, then your parents might be quite sad that they've got an iliterate child on their hands.

As for doing TOCG25... thats just my point. TOC shouldnt exist in the game in the first place. Aparantely its an instance to gear people for ICC.

Why would you waste and entire tier of raiding for that?
They could of added ajzol nerub or a vyrkul raid, you know something as awesome as ulduar was. But instead you get a big circle with bosses throwned at you.

People need to stop complaining about ToC, blizz has stated they're not happy with it and don't plan to do anything like it ever again. What more do you fucking want out of it? You got the recognition that the instance is bad so what else is there to these long winded posts about how bad it is?

You'd think you guys would appreciate them acknowledging that as well as attempting to make hard modes work as best as possible. But no, someone has to come on here and bitch about every possible thing they can just to bitch about it.

[Izenhart]

No, you're wrong

[Ahpuch]

Finally, a thread which shows exactly how I feel.

I'd consider myself an elitist, but there's a lot of people about who would say otherwise. I haven't been playing since beta, I started not long before the end of the Burning Crusade, and even then I only levelled a warrior to 55 with the intention of creating a DK in Wrath. As soon as I hit 80 I went straight into Naxx 10 and was fully decked out in purples within 2-3 weeks. This was a long time before Ulduar was released so I had to obtain my shit the hard way. Covered in quest greens and blues I was still blitzing many other players on DPS meters (ahh when DKs were OP :'))

When Ulduar came out I loved every minute of it, finally a challenge had arisen, but as time went by the bosses we were clearing in 4 minutes became tedious, and in my guild there was only one challenge left. This was Yogg 25. I was 1 of only 10 people in my guild who had seen Yogg die and so I wasn't happy when we were sat wiping for hours each night on a boss which really wasn't that tough. I left the guild and jumped into the top guild on our server. Within 2 weeks I had my Ironbound and a few weeks later Algalon was dead before me.

You may disagree but now I have also server firsted that bloody great bug in ToGC 25 I would see myself as a more of a pro.

I'm fed up of these unguilded people walking around in full 226 ololfreeepixxx when I had to get my gear the hard way (Naxx was a bit hard at first). Someone can grind heroic dungeons and 10 mans for a week or so and have 2 pieces of tier 8.5 instantly, along with whatever gear drops along the way.

But at the same time I keep thinking it's great as when my alts hit 80 I know it'll be piss easy to get them good gear.

ToC however I think was a very poor judgement on Blizzard's behalf. I don't feel safe in the knowledge that scrubnubs are going to be walking out of that ridiculously easy roundhouse with gear worthy of heading in to ICC. There was once a time when I would go round to a mates house and sit in awe as I watched him healing the toughest bosses in Sunwell Plateau pre-nerf, and now any bad player can just sit there and faceroll against what should be end game content.

Please Blizz, if any of your dev's read this, don't make the same mistakes in Cataclysm as you did in Wrath, and I'll love you forever.

Tl;dr... tl;dr? go fuck yourself

[blahism]

Well, hopefully the new LFG, Dailies and Daily Raid will make a difference.

I found a great server where people pug everything daily so its not hard to find naxx and gear up and most people who want to raid want to get naxx down..

Those people going from blues to TOC are usually alts or people power leveling accounts to sell

[Noire]

Well, I like TOC, not because I'm bad (I used to be in a worldwide top50 guild during vanilla and tbc) but because right now I just don't have the time to commit to raidschedules. Even when you say "But raiding only takes 3 evenings a week", I don't have 3 evenings a week for this game. I have whenever I feel like it or whenever the opportunity is. And for that, TOC, Onyxia and VOA are perfect.
They are a great way to have a sense of progress in the game without making any fixed schedules. When I look at the profiles of "real" raiders, the gear level is immediately obvious, so why the complaints?

[Shiira]

I don't feel safe in the knowledge that scrubnubs are going to be walking out of that ridiculously easy roundhouse with gear worthy of heading in to ICC.

Players who are pugging toc25 normal will be ready to kill a couple of bosses in icecrown when 3.3 comes out. Keep clearing the 25 man on heroic and your entire guild will be swimming in 258 by then, you will be more than ready to steamroll the normal modes.

Don't act like serious raiders don't have a gear advantage over casuals and bads because we do, and it's only one of many advantages that put us in a better position to clear difficult content than them.

And seriously, if you don't feel safe because other potentially bad players are getting gear 13 item levels below yours then you probably aren't as good as you think you are.

[Ahpuch]

And seriously, if you don't feel safe because other potentially bad players are getting gear 13 item levels below yours then you probably aren't as good as you think you are.

I don't feel threatened, I guess what I meant was more like, why is it all just being handed to them on a plate.

[greyes1990]

If its TLr then you're mentaly retarded.
Seriously if you're on a forum with the purpose to read threads but this is too long for you, then your parents might be quite sad that they've got an iliterate child on their hands.

As for doing TOCG25... thats just my point. TOC shouldnt exist in the game in the first place. Aparantely its an instance to gear people for ICC.

Why would you waste and entire tier of raiding for that?
They could of added ajzol nerub or a vyrkul raid, you know something as awesome as ulduar was. But instead you get a big circle with bosses throwned at you.

funny how you dont know how to spell, I would've quoted your initial post and bolded the incredible amount of phails at spelling and/or grammar but I haz a life lol i r teh gud speller

[Deleted]

You're mixing up the average joe with baddies

Pro - people who clear up to Anub in ToGC
Average - People who arent retarded but dont do hardmodes extensively
Bad - lolimastandinthefireanddo5dps

And the elitists have their hard content, Anub ToGC

Actually this is wrong.

I consider myself somewhat average. And theres a problem in WoTLK especially with average players, not the bads or elitists. Theres just nothing to do. VoA feels like a faceroll. Same with Ony, ToC 10 and ToC 25. I PuG these twice a week (on 2 mains). It's no challenge at all, more like "lets get it done, maybe my sword, pants or whatever drops". Then there are daily heroics. I'm not even going to comment on those..

But where to move on? My guild can't handle the hardmodes and they rather farm ToC 25 or go back to Ulduar (Which is pointless for me, no gear upgrades). We tryed ToC 10 hard but failed and no one wants to lead it since. The gap from normal to hard is just too big. True, most my guildies are undergeared or they're altoholics and want to boost their alts but kinda fail to play them all properly but I don't want to move to a hardcore guild either. For community reasons and because.

I'm not a hardcore player. I could raid once or twice a week but don't want to commit to play WoW and forced to play 4 evenings a week.

TLDR:

Everything is too easy for average players so you can just faceroll through it and then hit the brick wall of hardmodes. Theres not much to do and no challenge.

[Gammer]

I had aspired to raid at a high level for quite a while before an opportunity presented itself where I could get into my current guild. Though I only joined about halfway through the Ulduar Hardmode race, the encounters I've been able to complete have been thoroughly enjoyable.

Now, while I've only been in this guild since Ulduar, prenerf fights like Freya+3, Mimiron, Yogg0, Algalon and even 4tower FL have been supremely entertaining. These are what the "elitists" want. They want more fights that push raids to their limit. They want extremely close and tuned encounters that some may believe are impossible. The fact that the "casuals" get loot within the same quality, while annoying, is not gamebreaking. The only fight I personally would consider near the level of Mimiron/Yogg0 in this raid tier would be ToGC Anub. In Ulduar we had four or five fights that would challenge our raid every week. In ToC, we have one and its not even much of a challenge anymore.

In the end, most "elitist" guilds have resigned to the fact that normal modes will be very very easy and there is nothing wrong with that. We just want the hardmodes to actually be hard.

[Shiira]

I don't feel threatened, I guess what I meant was more like, why is it all just being handed to them on a plate.

Because this is what a lot of players want and they happen to be the majority so they are going to get it.

They can have their 30 minute clears of normal modes for all I care, meanwhile I am doing hard modes and getting the same gear on my alts that casuals get on their mains.

[alt-ithist]

If you really didnt find ToGC25 challenging then you are one of the top 1% raiders out there. I consider myself and the guild i run it with decent and we are still cockblock by Heroic anub. If you are bitching about The gear passed around then that only shows that you are the baddie. In gaming competitions every party is given access to the same gear and the only thing that makes the difference is a mixture of skill/group composition/luck. You may feel that because you are more skilled you deserve better gear, however you really dont. The gear is just the tool you require to participate. The reward on the other hand are The trophies you get in the end. Titles/mounts/Legendaries make the most sense as true rewards then gear.

I dont think i know anyone who denies that 3.0 was a complete failure. It truly catered to casuals, not because it gave them access to equal gear but because it was easy as fuck and boring, only held one single encounter that you couldnt sleep through. As a dragon fanatic, Malygos fight continue to be my biggest wow dissapointment. 3.1 and 3.2 got it right, it gave fun fights to the casuals and a great challenge to hardcores. I personally love ToGC. 4 great boss fights and one awsome trash-pac fight for those into hard trash. Wouldve been nice tho if they had a gauntlet style event to get to anub but /shrug :-\. I look forward to downing Arthas normal within the first couple weeks of release then spend months on heroic and eventually, the true Arthas fight.

If its TLr then you're mentaly retarded.
Seriously if you're on a forum with the purpose to read threads but this is too long for you, then your parents might be quite sad that they've got an iliterate child on their hands.

As for doing TOCG25... thats just my point. TOC shouldnt exist in the game in the first place. Aparantely its an instance to gear people for ICC.

Why would you waste and entire tier of raiding for that?
They could of added ajzol nerub or a vyrkul raid, you know something as awesome as ulduar was. But instead you get a big circle with bosses throwned at you.