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  1. #21

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Thanks Harky. Great post and more info than I expected when I originally posted.

  2. #22
    Dreadlord
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    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    I'm kind of confused about some of the comments in here. Yes, Druids and Pallies are probably a little OP, but a lot of that is balanced by the encounter. For instance, Druids are awesome raid healers in raid-wide consistent damage, which seems to be the flavor of ToC in fights like Twins and Anub. However, with ICC looming in the next few weeks, I strongly suspect we'll be seeing a more balanced approach to the types of raid damage so that no one healer will be ideal for everything. That is, Holy Priests were the raid healer de jour for good chunk of Ulduar encounters, and now in ToC it's Druids; it seems to me that Blizzard is learning from that and don't want raids to stack the ideal healer the way Shamans were stacked in Sunwell. Let us also consider that Druids are getting nerfed in 3.3. I'm not quite sure how much that affects them, but in the end, I think it leads to a more balanced raid-healing set-up post 3.3.

    I also think the mana problems for Holy are overstated. Yes, I still have some mana problems if I get a little too aggressive in burst-healing situations because Prayer of Healing is bloody expensive, but that's the point. If we could do solid sustained healing AND burst healing at the same time we'd be OP. However, I find that my mana in sustained raid healing (CoH/PoM + Renew, like Twins) or in random spiky situations (like Jaraxxus) is just fine because those situations have much better synergy with Holy Concentration than the raidwide burst situations do. In fact, I've been looking for ways to dump regen from my gear in favor of more throughput. In fact, the only real problem I see with Priest regen is that our mana CDs aren't as dependable. Druids can just use Innervate and forget about it; Shamans can do much the same with Mana Tide, but neither of our cooldowns are the type we can just use and forget about. Shadowfiend has gotten a lot better since they added avoidance, but it still dies early from time to time and requires some attention to make sure it's on the right target and that the shadowcrawl ability is used on CD. Hymn of Hope has two problems in that it's channeled, and you're not even guaranteed to actually get any mana back from it.

    The main problem with Holy tank healing is mostly from a longevity standpoint. As Holy, with 5/5 EH and 5/5 DF, I can put out decent single target throughput with Renew + FHx3>GH, but even with 3/3 Improved Healing, I still can't last as long as a Paladin, and he puts out a bit more throughput with perfect consistency. I do, however, think that Holy's ability to support tank healers is a bit underrated. For instance, on Gormok, PoM bouncing between the three tanks and keeping Renew. Similarly, a well-timed Guardian Spirit or even a Serendipity-hasted Greater Heal can mean the difference between the tank living and dying. So, in the end, I still agree that Holy is the worst tank healer, I just don't think think it's quite as abysmal as some people make it out to be.

    Other than that though, I do think that the other summaries are good.

  3. #23

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Quote Originally Posted by Tocsin
    I'm thinking the priest as I haven't done much with a priest in the past but they might suck atm.
    Everyone here can tell you that Priests are FAR from "sucking" atm. They have TWO extremely viable healing specs for any and every type of encounter. having one of each of those healing specs (Disc and Holy) is ideal for all raids especially Hard Modes.

    By "preferred" I'm guessing you mean "what do you like to play", because none of the healers are really lacking, they all bring something to the table, so play whatever you think is the most fun style...play.

    There is not 1 uber healing spec, anyone that tells you there is gives too much credit (where it isn't due) to absolute Recount numbers.

    Druids and Paladins are not as OP as people say, giant numbers in Recount do not mean shit.

    EX - <PIE CHART> US TOP 10 Check 'em out http://piechart-guild.com/

  4. #24

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Clerics.

    I mean Chanters hardly get to survive a bossfight while letting the whole group die so that the tank will stay up.
    Do you know how many pots and how much i have to abuse stoneskin on my sorc to live through trashpulls with them as healers?
    Quote Originally Posted by General_Typhus View Post
    Hi i am any class in the game. To beat me spam icelance and then talk about how skilled you are when the 20k crits roll in.

  5. #25

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Quote Originally Posted by Skivoh
    Clerics.

    I mean Chanters hardly get to survive a bossfight while letting the whole group die so that the tank will stay up.
    Do you know how many pots and how much i have to abuse stoneskin on my sorc to live through trashpulls with them as healers?
    Aion joke reference spotted! :P


    Elitist Group addon. Tells you what GS won't!

  6. #26

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    I have played both tree, resto sham and a bit of pre 80 disc priest and this is my 2 cents.

    Trees: Imo a very powerful healer, can do both MT healing and raidhealing with no problems. I, however, find raid healing a bit dull as tree since you're basicly spamming rejuv and wild growth. Needs a moderate amount of skill.

    Resto sham: A kind of mix between priest/palla nowdays. Excel at raidhealing when stacking haste, decent at keeping tanks up - but is harsh on the mana.
    Takes a while to get used to, and needs a fast reaction to keep up with other healers.
    Currently the class i have healed the most with, and the most fun aswell.
    And in regard to people claiming they're not very good, and that they have trouble staying at the top of the meters: Depends totally on the person behind the keyboard.
    A couple of weeks ago i ended up solo healing halfway through the two jormungars and the whole icehowl encounter in totc HC with little to no problem.
    This was thanks to the shamans "moderateness", jack of all trades - ace of none.
    Needs more skill and gear then the tree to keep up with the other healers on the meters.

    Disc priest: Unfortunatley i cant say much about the disc priest as i have only healed normal instances with it while leveling.
    Personally i would pick disc over holy any day in the week, simply because it has more to offer then holy, and imo, it is a more exciting spec.
    With the mixture of preventive spells (shield, DA) and strong buffs (PI, PS) and one of the most lovable heals in the game (Penance), i just cant stop enjoying my priest!
    Imo, a moderate difficulty class/spec to understand if you are new to healing, but so easy when you know how it works.
    Sadly there isn't much room for disc priests in raids, especially not if you're aiming for 10 mans and already have a holy palla for MT healing.
    Disc priests work as best as the only disc in the raid, and on MT or OT.

    Hope it helped
    http://zinistra.deviantart.com/

  7. #27

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Just my 2 cents re: holy priests (shammy is 77, paly is 75 drood is 50.....)

    For me there is 3 sides to healing (in general) - keeping tanks up, keeping raid healed through aoe damage etc and 'OH SHIT' (for powerful move / mess ups etc). Each healer has their niche and this has been discussed alot above but i think we (holy priests) have the best cover for the third category, and that can really swing a fight from a wipe to a win.

    Yes pallys also have (if they are good and quick to react - and that isnt many ive seen) shields, LoH and tanks have their CDs, but a well played Holy Priest (which i'm sadly not yet....) can make intelligent use of their CDs to maximum effect (i wish i used guardian spirit more.... i only use it when tank drops to <10% but should use it 2-3 times per fight really).

    We also excel at those times where quick AoE healing is neccssary - in ToC think gormaks fires where 2-3 people are too close, ditto jormungulars.

    Not everyone is lucky enough / wants to raid with 25 spot on people who never mess up. For those cases where fallible people are around, a well played holy priest wins.

    ps as for throughput i may not be a great healer (its my primary alt) but i have around 7-800 mp5 when buffed, 30% crit, 2400sp. single healed razor 10 and xt 10 when other healer went afk. Clever use of all CDs (binding heal was great for razor), quick heals... and letting bad dps die first... made this possible (Although i was plum out of mana at the end each time)

    85 pala (tank1); 85 DK (tank2; 85 priest (unused), 85Drood (heals); 85 lock (dps); 85 warrior (Tank3) 85 hunter ;83 Shammy (Ele/Resto);65 rogue

  8. #28

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Druids are overvalued for the very reason that they can output superior healing in terms of healing meters. What is overlooked is that healing is slow and can get into trouble when people require to be at full health otherwise risk death. Something like Hard Mode Thorim for example, you can't afford someone to hover around 75% health, you need them bursted back to 100% so they can take 2 successive random hits again. Again this is where the strengths of a Holy Priest shine.
    Druid healing being slower than holy priest is true for raid healing but simply false for tank healing, assuming the druid knows what he's doing.

    Nourish, if glyphed, is as fast as flash heal and hits harder. It has a stupidly high crit rate, and each crit will increase cast speed by 20% for 3 seconds due to Nature's Grace. Nourish spam flat out beats anything a holy priest can do single target. This will be even more true in 3.3 when GotEM gives an additional 10% haste instead of 20% haste for instants.

    Claiming that druids are worse tank healers than holy priests is about as convincing as when you said on a disc priest thread last week:

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Couldn't agree more, you lose over half your toolbox specing disc
    I get that you feel that holy priests are underestimated by the community right now, but such exaggeration doesn't help your cause.

  9. #29

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinistra
    Disc priest: Unfortunatley i cant say much about the disc priest as i have only healed normal instances with it while leveling.
    Personally i would pick disc over holy any day in the week, simply because it has more to offer then holy, and imo, it is a more exciting spec.
    I'd love to hear your reasoning on how losing half your toolbox and pressing heal buttons without thought makes it more exciting?

    Holy uses a far wider range of spells, requires some thought in terms of mana management, requires a greater diversity in terms of healing targets... Disc is quite powerful but its not an exciting spec to play, you spam three spells for 99% of the time and 2 of those spells are used on mid to long cds, so you effectively become a FH spammer that throws in the occasional penance or PW:S.

    I really find this sort of view quite bizzare... I still maintain that most people think disc priests are fun or exciting because it limits their ability to have to think, they don't have to manage their mana, everything contradictory to why healing is actually fun.

  10. #30

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    I'd love to hear your reasoning on how losing half your toolbox and pressing heal buttons without thought makes it more exciting?
    LOL - again with the hyperbole! I don't get it - you're not a troll (well except racially), you're not an idiot - why do you feel the need to say something so obviously false?


  11. #31

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Holy: CoH, PoH, PoM, Renew, FH, GH (seldom if ever), PW:S (w/ B&S only), Binding Heal (rarely)
    Disc: PW:S, Penance, FH, PoM, PoH (rarely), GH (rarely, some builds), Renew (seldom if ever), Binding Heal (rarely)

    So let's see...common spells? Holy: 5, Disc: 4 (5 in some builds).

    Yeah, that sounds like about half all right. :

  12. #32

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    I'd love to hear your reasoning on how losing half your toolbox and pressing heal buttons without thought makes it more exciting?
    Ok, seriously, you provide some very decent points regarding the different specs, and you obviously know how to play this game, but have you ever heard of something called a difference in taste? Hell, look at me even: I've tried both Holy and Disc, and I can honestly say I much prefer Disc. It has nothing to do with not having to think about mana managment, or just requiring three core spells (because let's face it, we don't just have three spells), but it has to do with the playstyle. I much prefer the preventing of damage rather than healing it. Of course, this is simply my opinion, and, as such, doesn't really matter to anyone else.

    The TS is letting others decide what playstyle he should choose, which is, in my opinion, a bit stupid. But hey, each to his own. I'd say that Priests, Druids and Paladins are all in good spots right now, although I personally didn't enjoy Paladin healing when I tried it. I can't actually remember the last time I had a Shaman healer, so I won't even comment on that.

  13. #33

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    I'd love to hear your reasoning on how losing half your toolbox and pressing heal buttons without thought makes it more exciting?

    Holy uses a far wider range of spells, requires some thought in terms of mana management, requires a greater diversity in terms of healing targets... Disc is quite powerful but its not an exciting spec to play, you spam three spells for 99% of the time and 2 of those spells are used on mid to long cds, so you effectively become a FH spammer that throws in the occasional penance or PW:S.

    I really find this sort of view quite bizzare... I still maintain that most people think disc priests are fun or exciting because it limits their ability to have to think, they don't have to manage their mana, everything contradictory to why healing is actually fun.
    How can you count in holy only spells as "half my toolbox" when its for holy spec only? Cause i do assume you mean CoH and Guardian spirit and whatnot. In that case i would only use one third of my toolbox since shadow has quite useful spells aswell, Dispersion for example.
    And i dont know about you, but i dont press my buttons without a thought - infact, how can you even claim that for disc only? imo holy would be more of a "press random buttons" spec since if you are holy and are on raidhealing you also spam 3-4 buttons, one of which have a CD. Quite contradictive.

    As for "I still maintain that most people think disc priests are fun or exciting because it limits their ability to have to think...", that depends solely on the person in question, if you think that having the ability to cast 5-6 heals makes you a better healer, im afraid you're wrong.

    Edit: And as my original post stated - IMO = In my opinion. No need to get all uppity against someone who speaks their mind about which spec and class one prefers to play.
    http://zinistra.deviantart.com/

  14. #34

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    I personally go with shaman being the best PvE based healer for 5/10/25 man content based on the fact that they bring more to the group/raid over all. They can still be one of the best group healers while having access to a crap load of buffs (not unique anymore but still), heroism/blood lust and cleansing/anti-fear totems.
    I used to be hardcore, then I discovered how fun it is to get laid on an almost daily basis. I'll take sex over WoW any day, so now I'm casual.

  15. #35

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonberry
    The other healers are worthless.
    Please for the love of god don't make over reaching broad statements of stupidity such as this one. The healer is only as good as the person that plays it regardless of its class, and there are plenty of times that all have their strengths and weaknesses.
    I used to be hardcore, then I discovered how fun it is to get laid on an almost daily basis. I'll take sex over WoW any day, so now I'm casual.

  16. #36

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq
    I'm not quite sure how much that affects them, but in the end, I think it leads to a more balanced raid-healing set-up post 3.3.
    The nerf will basically take their effective rejuvenation targets from around 15 to around 8. Its a huge assed nerf to raid healing. After 3.3, druids will no longer be even close to the top raid healer. Your major options for raid healer will be either shaman or priest.

    You guys keep neglecting to mention that paladins are also getting huge nerfs in the areas of mana regeneration. After 3.3, if paladins don't watch their mana usage they will go oom. The only reason they are even remotely considered overpowered is because they have "unlimited" mana and that is going away.

    I used to be hardcore, then I discovered how fun it is to get laid on an almost daily basis. I'll take sex over WoW any day, so now I'm casual.

  17. #37

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq
    I'm not quite sure how much that affects them, but in the end, I think it leads to a more balanced raid-healing set-up post 3.3.
    The nerf will basically take their effective rejuvenation targets from around 15 to around 8. Its a huge assed nerf to raid healing. After 3.3, druids will no longer be even close to the top raid healer. Your major options for raid healer will be either shaman or priest.

    You guys keep neglecting to mention that paladins are also getting huge nerfs in the areas of mana regeneration. After 3.3, if paladins don't watch their mana usage they will go oom. The only reason they are even remotely considered overpowered is because they have "unlimited" mana and that is going away.

    I used to be hardcore, then I discovered how fun it is to get laid on an almost daily basis. I'll take sex over WoW any day, so now I'm casual.

  18. #38

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Quote Originally Posted by Daez
    The nerf will basically take their effective rejuvenation targets from around 15 to around 8. Its a huge assed nerf to raid healing. After 3.3, druids will no longer be even close to the top raid healer. Your major options for raid healer will be either shaman or priest.
    You massively overestimate the effect on druids. They are losing 10% haste on instants, so it's not going to be 15->8. The change in renew from 15->12 seconds got pulled, perhaps you missed that though. After regearing for more haste and picking up ICC gear most druids aren't too worried from what I can tell.

    You guys keep neglecting to mention that paladins are also getting huge nerfs in the areas of mana regeneration. After 3.3, if paladins don't watch their mana usage they will go oom. The only reason they are even remotely considered overpowered is because they have "unlimited" mana and that is going away.
    Interesting as here are the current set of changes for paladin from Dresorull

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Flash of Light: This spell no longer causes a heal-over-time effect unless the player has the Infusion of Light talent.
    Lay on Hands: This ability will place Forbearance on the paladin if used on his or herself. It will not place Forbearance on others.
    Talents

    Holy

    Infusion of Light: This talent now causes the paladin’s Flash of Light spells to heal the target for 50/100% of the Flash of Light healing amount over 12 seconds.
    Sanctified Light: This talent now also has a 33/66/100% chance to prevent Lay on Hands from causing Forbearance when Lay on Hands is used on others.
    There's no such nerf on the list, so do you have any actual evidence for these or are you just saying you think they need a nerf? Because if you think they need a nerf then you think they're OP, and if you think they're OP then presumably you think they're the strongest healer, but weirdly you say that shaman is the strongest healer - but you don't think they're gonna get a nerf.

    TL/DR:
    In Daez-world druids are being nerfed to the ground, in blizz's world they're not
    In Daez-world paladins are getting huge mana nerfs, in blizz's world they're not
    In Daez-world shaman are the best healers in 5/10/25 man, ..............................


  19. #39

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Quote Originally Posted by Azyoulike
    TL/DR:
    In Daez-world druids are being nerfed to the ground, in the real world they're not
    In Daez-world paladins are getting huge mana nerfs, in the real world they're not
    That's probably more accurate since it's not just in Blizzard's eyes that there's no nerf. Druids are actually receiving a buff, not a nerf. Paladins are only being nerfed for ProtPVP. Holy itself is mostly untouched (self LoH/other arena based changes aside).

  20. #40

    Re: Fav healer? Your preferred healer

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    That's probably more accurate since it's not just in Blizzard's eyes that there's no nerf. Druids are actually receiving a buff, not a nerf. Paladins are only being nerfed for ProtPVP. Holy itself is mostly untouched (self LoH/other arena based changes aside).
    I didn't want to overstate my case and I figured somebody would troll that wow isn't 'the real world'


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