Paladin tank critics.

[Dedweight]

Even if they are, Vindication is stronger ... even if only by like 2-4 points. :-\

Pretty sure the two are the same, they both have their pro's and con's though, ours is only a Single Target debuff[assuming it doesn't proc off HotR(I didn't spec it and haven't payed close enough attention to see if it's on multiple targets from my guilds other pally tank)] while the shout is an AoE effect. Both AP Reductions should be around the same although I believe imp Demo does have a slightly larger reduction all be it rarely specced into as a PvE Warrior.

[Bael]

Yes, that is basically the case. Demoralizing shout does a smaller debuff to many targets, but I think that the talent will increase it to sufficiently meet or beat vindication. I think the real selling point is in vindication being larger than untalented demo while also being passive.

As far as few warriors taking the improved demo shout, that is also very true in my observation. I was surprised, however, to notice that Ciderhelm of Tankspot has it in both specs the last time I looked.

[Destriel]

Yes, that is basically the case. Demoralizing shout does a smaller debuff to many targets, but I think that the talent will increase it to sufficiently meet or beat vindication. I think the real selling point is in vindication being larger than untalented demo while also being passive.

As far as few warriors taking the improved demo shout, that is also very true in my observation. I was surprised, however, to notice that Ciderhelm of Tankspot has it in both specs the last time I looked.

Talented it is still two to four points in difference from Vidication(Compared with my prot warrior partner) which makes it slightly more effective from that standpoint. The passive vrs general ability also makes Vindication from another standpoint, better.

[Boldy]

Hello,

Just made an account to post here my 2 cents... honestly I was a bit scared of the posts some of my fellow tankers made.

1. As someone almost put the finger earlyer as a tank you'll basically be part of 2 type of encounters: Heavy Melee or Heavy Magic DMG.
For the 1st type, max out your survivability (avoidance - dodge/parry/miss ; mitigation - armor/block; health)
For the 2nd type, the main thing you should focus on is Health and Resistances to that particular fight (shad, fire... whaterver)
A good tank has at least 2 setups of gear according for the above clasification.

2. In raids threat should not be a big issue... that's why blizz left rogues and hunters. IF they do the job right. Outside raids, you can have a dungeon tanking set with extra hit, also don't forget to use Seal of Command. The new version does wonders in dungeons.

3. It seems some of my fellow tanks have no idea that defence over the "cap" still gives dodge, parry, block and chance to be missed. It is still a very useful stat. How useful? That's an easy one...
It all depends on the balance between your dodge/parry. Fully buffed, the formula looks like this: (dodge[%]-10%) / (parry[%] - 10%) = 1.88
At this balance, 1 defense rating will be more valuable than anything else you can get (except stamina for magical fights, ofc).
If the balance is > 1.88 then parry raring > dodge rating, if it's lower than ya need more dodge.

So... it is true that for some tanks dodge rating might be better than defence as well as for others parry is the most important stat. However, if you want to maximize survivability... 1.88 fully buffed is what you're after and at this balance you can keep stacking defence to the skyes. It's the best avoidance stat you can get.

For enchants, supposing you are over the 540 cap and your stats are balanced:
gloves: armor or stamina (according to fight)
cloak: armor or defense (according to fight)
chest: defense or HP (according to fight)
bracers: HP
boots: HP
shield: defense or HP (according to fight)... most tanks go for defense though
weapon: mongoose or bladeward. I prefer mongoose but that's just me.

Good luck to you all and do the homeworks next time

[GDMANYAK]

Tbh stacking stamina is the best way to go for Prot Pally atm, am not stacking stamina crazily but mostly. U can check my armory(in the sig) for my way of gearing and enchants. Also i would reccomend u this.
Most of ppl wrote here total shit that u shouldnt listen.
P.S. Boldy have written everything right.

[Offhand]

/facepalm
That's like saying "20 haste is better than 6 MP5 even though you're at the haste cap because 20 is bigger than 6". While i don't disagree with the def enchant being better, the way in which you stated and wished to belittle someone wasn't appropriate for the forums.

16 defense is currently BiS (unless you're block and defense "capped", when agility will give much better results for TPS, and Survivability). Being an engi and active PvPer, i don't think i could imagine living without my parachute cloak tinker though. Although i do have a tendancy to jump off high places like a Lemming at time

Even past the block cap, defense gives more point-for-point avoidance then dodge. This has been the case since the dodge nerf (and even then +def was more avoidance). The poster in question came in thinking he was the only person "clever" enough to be using TBC enchants in a slot that has several, viable WotLK enchants that are clearly better then the suggested one. If I came off as an asshole it's likely because it was a stupid question smug suggestion.

The 16 def to cloak is a good enchant. Certainly worth using while still struggling to reach the 540 def soft cap. Past that number, and if you're block capped elsewhere, it's more beneficial to switch to the +armor enchant, as it's budgeted higher and will increase your EH.

Between the three (def, armor, agi) there's something for every tank. Since we're talking about endgame raiding, I would suggest leaving the PvP enchants off your PvP gear and building a separate set.

[Failcon]

Thanks for the helpfull tips so far.As i currently see from your comments i'm at the point that different people prefer different enchants and prefer to go different ways with gemming.I have corrected my gemming and i'm currently sitting at 39.2k hp UB.I decided to go for more stamina rather than avoidance in my main tanking set,though i also have resistance set and building my avoidance set .I believe that going for more stamina(without having really bad impact on my avoidance) is the best way to gem and enchant for me , because i'm mainly tanking ToC 10hc and ToC25 and bosses there do a lot of burst and it's better to have a bit more stamina just to be on the safe side.And as we know most people judge tanks by their hp(which is sad ofcourse,but i hate being called the more incapable tank in a pug just because i have 1k hp less then the other tankadin who is Naxx25 gear but has gemmed and enchanted for pure stamina).As for a weapon enchant i just switched to 25 hit/28crit enchant instead of the blade ward, because i believe i am lacking some hit in the moment(and didn't feel like blade ward did that much for me anyway) and chose armor on my cloak for an enchant,because i read in maintankadin armor is a really usefull tool and shouldn't be neglected by a pally tank.Another thing-thanks a lot for the BiS gear list,i was about to ask if there was such a thing right now.Also thanks a lot to Chronalis for the helm suggestion.I went Ony25 today but no luck(guess it's gonna be next week).Thank you all for your comments once again.
/Cheers

[Prentice]

Even past the block cap, defense gives more point-for-point avoidance then dodge. This has been the case since the dodge nerf (and even then +def was more avoidance). The poster in question came in thinking he was the only person "clever" enough to be using TBC enchants in a slot that has several, viable WotLK enchants that are clearly better then the suggested one. If I came off as an asshole it's likely because it was a stupid question smug suggestion.

The 16 def to cloak is a good enchant. Certainly worth using while still struggling to reach the 540 def soft cap. Past that number, and if you're block capped elsewhere, it's more beneficial to switch to the +armor enchant, as it's budgeted higher and will increase your EH.

I was actually trying to think of good way to type exactly what you said here to respond to Chron. With your original post, I knew exactly what you meant and agreed. 1pt Def>1pt Dodge. 16 Def>12 Dodge. Made perfect sense.