Icecrown Idols

[droppin]

anyone else notice the feral idol is worse than the current triumph ones?

new one: periodic damage stacks 44 agi 5 times for 15 seconds.
old one (mutilation): bear form, lacerate and swipe have a chance to give 200 dodge rating, kitty mangle and shred 200 agi.

Sooo (for bears), in any kind of fight you have to wait for lacerate to tick 5 times before you can get the full benefit and it has 0 effectiveness in an aoe pull. With the normal threat rotation mutilation is up about 100%, while the new idol requires 5 ticks to get rockin.

For kitties, your rake has to tap 5 times continously in order for you to gain....20 agility? with the mangles and shreds you'll have a 100% 200 agility no matter what you fighting whether its aoe or single boss fights.

It's just annoying to always having to use old idols when the new ones blow (Idol of Terror anyone? >) To recap, the bear side has 0 use in any aoe pulls (which is 3/4 of the game ) and the kitty side gets a bonus of 20 extra agility for xtimes the wait...

speaking of aoe and bears, how about Bear Hug: aoe double swipe with 30 second cd? ;D

[droppin]

i would post on wow forums but there's an error that keeps popping up. :'(

[Velzira]

Because ilevel 245 idols were something you got early in wotlk, right?

If thats better, then use it. By my calculation, after 5 stacks it will give more agility than the triumph one...therefore making it better for longer fights...at least for cat form.

Stop complaining about something stupid. Zomg, an idol you get from easy to get badges...that thing should give me a 100000000 k dps increase!

[Fornaw]

anyone else notice the feral idol is worse than the current triumph ones?

new one: periodic damage stacks 44 agi 5 times for 15 seconds.
old one (mutilation): bear form, lacerate and swipe have a chance to give 200 dodge rating, kitty mangle and shred 200 agi.

Sooo (for bears), in any kind of fight you have to wait for lacerate to tick 5 times before you can get the full benefit and it has 0 effectiveness in an aoe pull. With the normal threat rotation mutilation is up about 100%, while the new idol requires 5 ticks to get rockin.

For kitties, your rake has to tap 5 times continously in order for you to gain....20 agility? with the mangles and shreds you'll have a 100% 200 agility no matter what you fighting whether its aoe or single boss fights.

It's just annoying to always having to use old idols when the new ones blow (Idol of Terror anyone? >) To recap, the bear side has 0 use in any aoe pulls (which is 3/4 of the game ) and the kitty side gets a bonus of 20 extra agility for xtimes the wait...

speaking of aoe and bears, how about Bear Hug: aoe double swipe with 30 second cd? ;D

Because survivability on trash matters... wait a second!

Honestly get both, use them appropriately, logic is not hard. Not a real feral dps expert, but I feel like having rake not tick on a boss for over 10 seconds is not going to be a serious issue, same thing for lacerate.

[Degrador]

You can keep using the old ones if you like. I can guarantee that progression raiding druids will use the new idols though.

The only question is when to get the idol, and IMO it's going to be one of the last items to pick up. Unless you're using T9.258 then T10 is probably going to be the first priority (depending on set bonuses for your spec that is), and possibly the non-set items as well.

[Beatus00636]

By my calculation, after 5 stacks it will give more agility than the triumph one...therefore making it better for longer fights...at least for cat form.

Lol GJ you are definitely pro at math you can do something x 5

[Neba]

Yeah having a worst case scenario of 15 seconds of ramp up time until it's a 20 agi buff over the old dps idol seems pretty unimpressive for cat. For tanking stuff that isn't aoe trash the new idol is a 67 agi upgrade over the previous bosstanking idol though, that's nice.

[xebtria]

it has 0 effectiveness in an aoe pull.

yeah, because even on aoe pulls you never have lacerate ticking at at least one mob. and the 245 idols are gonna be destroyed when you recieve the 251 idol

oh wait...

[4yBaK]

For kitties, your rake has to tap 5 times continously in order for you to gain....20 agility? with the mangles and shreds you'll have a 100% 200 agility no matter what you fighting whether its aoe or single boss fights.

Are you sure that current idol does not have internal CD? I think you wrong about 100% uptime of 200agi...

[Deleted]

People are voicing the same issues with this, as with the balance idol. And i think its a bit too moist in here with all the crying.

I don't think your mutilation idol has a 100% uptime. I have between 80-90% uptime on the buff from my moonkin idol, and i even keep moonfire up constantly, so i would assume that you have at best the same uptime, and probably lower than this. Lets assume you have 80% uptime.

80% of 200 agility/dodge rating gives you an average of +160 agility/dodge rating. This is what you get from the idol right now. It might be higher or lower depending on how lucky you are with procs, but stick with me for a moment.

With the new idol, it will stack at ANY tick. This means that at a maximum of 5 lacerate ticks, it will be at the full duration. After this, it will have a 100% uptime, unless you are away from *any* target you can put lacerate on for more than 15 seconds (but your mangle idol is under the same circumstances, and thats probably worse).

So if we assume a 100% uptime on the new idol, then you have 220 agility all the time. This is an increase of 37% in the number, and whats more, the benefits you get is quite noticable aswell:

160 dodge rating = 2,56% dodge on average (200 dodge rating = 3.20% dodge) (because it can fall off)
220 agility = 2,794% crit, and 3,311% dodge (very much near constant)

Do you really dislike this? Heck, even if both have a 100% uptime, its still a large increase just going from dodge to agility.

In regards to trash AOE pulls (hah), do you often use mangle when you have to tank an AOE pack? Probably not.

[unidrood]

Hmmm for me as a resto druid i am not quite sure about the t10 idol..

My idol currently has pretty much a 100% uptime as i rejuv blanket and its always on the tank.

This new idol though i am tossing and turning about spending my first lot of frost emblems on it. No doubt there is going to be BiS leather gear crafted and im going to need the frost orb, the EoF spell/mp5 equip proc trinket though looks very nice..

I guess it will all come down to personal testing, pick up the idol when you can, hit the dummy and see what works best for you.

[Sunshine]

People are voicing the same issues with this, as with the balance idol. And i think its a bit too moist in here with all the crying.

Agree, completely. The new idol is fantastic. For cat form, it's a little more work to get the buff started, but 100% on a dot that's constantly on the target vs. 70% on a move we use frequently... one has a chance of being unlucky, the other does not. There may be some cases where the second is better (maybe northrend beasts during icehowl charge?), but they're few and far between (in current content, at least), and you can change idols in combat for that part of the fight. The most common reason to be away from a primary target is to dps something else, and you'll still have rake up on that something.

For bear form, I think many people (including myself) are still using the corruptor idol (153 agi >> 200 dodge). In that case, 67 agi upgrade? Yes please.

How much of a problem is the duration on the buff / time required to stack it? We'll just have to see as more information about the fights becomes available.

[droppin]

from the posts i've read, yall put to much pressure on this perfect scenario of, ok 5 min bossfight procc chance yata yata.. most of the bossfights in the game your switching dps (jaraxus), your separated from the boss (yogg), or your doing something else to help the raid whether offtanking/brezzing/tranquing. also, mutilation doesn't have an internal cd from what i've seen. with the amount of shreds/mangles/swipes/lacerates ferals do its basically 100%. also for the person talking about lacerates on an aoe pull, ur waiting 10-20 seconds for the stacks, the aoe is prolly half dead by then and idk how you have enough threat to hold it without spamming swipe and using demo shout.

[getefix]

from the posts i've read, yall put to much pressure on this perfect scenario of, ok 5 min bossfight procc chance yata yata.. most of the bossfights in the game your switching dps (jaraxus), your separated from the boss (yogg), or your doing something else to help the raid whether offtanking/brezzing/tranquing. also, mutilation doesn't have an internal cd from what i've seen. with the amount of shreds/mangles/swipes/lacerates ferals do its basically 100%. also for the person talking about lacerates on an aoe pull, ur waiting 10-20 seconds for the stacks, the aoe is prolly half dead by then and idk how you have enough threat to hold it without spamming swipe and using demo shout.

I don't think I've touched my tranquility button since I hit 80. 3k healing every seconds 2 isn't so hot. Predatory Swiftness + Healing Touch is better.

Rake is the 2nd ability used when opening up on any target. If you dps a target without a rend then you're not making use of Rend and Tear. When switching targets you have 15 seconds from the end of your rake before you lose the buff. Rake lasts 9 seconds and 12 seconds with 2pc t9. Do you really see a time when this won't be up? In fact, it may even lead to raking multiple targets to speed up your stacking time.

If you're tanking and you think you need to have 220 agility while spamming maul and swipe then go for it. I can't recall too many situations where I'm swipe+maul spamming and my life is endangered.

To recap. Feral dps doesn't offtank (and if they do they will lacerate and keep the buff going), battle rez is instant, and tranquility is a waste of time. If you think you should use mutilation because you're not skilled enough to keep up a rake or a lacerate on a target then don't let me stop you.

[Cheezee]

For trash tanking I'd say Mutilation. The T10 idol will win out for boss tanking. Cat will probably be a wash; I don't really see how one is superior to the other. I'll probably use the T10 idol cause I'm too lazy to switch most of the time. It's a good thing my squire has a pony to fetch my crap from the bank. lol

[raxin]

Also keep in mind guys agility is effected by kings so...technically it's a 244 agility use for bears in a raid setting. But ya trash triumph trumps it imo.

[Sunshine]

One other point that I don't think has come up:

Not only can you get this effect from any mob, so this nullifies the argument of switching dps/tank targets (because one of the first things you do will be to lacerate/rake it), but also, let's look at the case where you're away from any target.

The idol of mutilation has a 9 (bear) / 16 (cat) second duration from the last ability that proc'd it. Given a 70% chance, we'll say this was a few seconds before you had to run away. Let's also say that sometime in those last few abilities you likely hit rake/lacerate. In this case, that bleed is *still ticking* for a few seconds as you're away from the boss, each tick refreshing the duration to a full 15 seconds.

So to compensate for the fact that we gain the buff more gradually, it actually stays up longer while we're away from the boss. We can even use this fact to our advantage in cases where we know there's going to be a knockback / run away situation (such as icehowl crash or jaraxxus fire) by throwing a bleed as our last ability as we're running / being knocked away.

[Degrador]

Hmmm for me as a resto druid i am not quite sure about the t10 idol..

The new idol is certainly better - it should have just as much up time as the other one. The only thing is that it's not enough of an upgrade to justify getting it straight away - it'll likely be the last thing you'd spend your EoF on.

[Fornaw]

from the posts i've read, yall put to much pressure on this perfect scenario of, ok 5 min bossfight procc chance yata yata.. most of the bossfights in the game your switching dps (jaraxus), your separated from the boss (yogg), or your doing something else to help the raid whether offtanking/brezzing/tranquing. also, mutilation doesn't have an internal cd from what i've seen. with the amount of shreds/mangles/swipes/lacerates ferals do its basically 100%. also for the person talking about lacerates on an aoe pull, ur waiting 10-20 seconds for the stacks, the aoe is prolly half dead by then and idk how you have enough threat to hold it without spamming swipe and using demo shout.

If you switch targets probabilistically you will get a rake up on your new target before your old rake expires, thus you are actually stacking FASTER than you would with just one target. Again, and this is really simple, get the new idol, don't destroy your old one, if there is a fight where the new idol isn't as good as the old, swap to the old.

[unidrood]

The new idol is certainly better - it should have just as much up time as the other one. The only thing is that it's not enough of an upgrade to justify getting it straight away - it'll likely be the last thing you'd spend your EoF on.

yeh i totally agree, Im thinking orbs for BiS crafted gear first then that trinket depending on what needs upgrading the most.

As far as cat dps goes i would expect most if not all will pick the idol up first its a good upgrade it just requires more effort.