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  1. #1

    Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    So I've been doing a lot of reading on elitist jerks and shadowprest.com and it seems like everyone has come to one conclusion.

    Shadow Priest DPS on the PTR right now has not changed much compared to Live.

    This we know.


    However, people are now saying that the Shadow Word: Pain Glyph is now useless and I'm trying to figure out why. As it is in the PTR, it restores mana, mainly because we'll be refreshing our dots a lot more often. Is it because we'll be re-casting shadow word pain LESS now that it doesn't scale with haste, or....

    can someone fill me in?

    80 Kingslayer Shadow Priest - Spirestone
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...e&n=Direshadow

  2. #2
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    The glyph's fine, no need to change any glyphs or enchants for next patch.

    Just stick around and roll them dots on the bosses.

  3. #3

    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    Wasn't the reason the relatively low amount of mp5 this gives since it's based off your base mana pool?

  4. #4
    Dreadlord BigGann's Avatar
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    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    I hate to say this, but stop trying to find the perfect way to increase your dps. We will never scale the way we need to.

    Shadow priests will not compete in dps until we have a spammable nuke. I hate that, it makes things boring, but it's true.

  5. #5

    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    ^^^
    this
    been waiting for it all along, everyone is saying it, but small changes like these, though useful, do nothing in the scheme of things.
    Shadow priests are lagging. greatly. unfortunately. but until blizzard realizes this and posts something useful instead of 'oh this class is fine, they just need moar haste to their dots', we will suck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pojodan
    Inscription: Flying Parchment:* Similar to Flying Carpet, only it looks like the Constitution

  6. #6

    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    the reason they can't buff us properly is due to bugs that should have been fixed many months ago. I'm not exactly all for a stupid "re-castable nuke"


    I like being a shadow priest because it's different. If I wanted to have a nuke, I'd roll a mage.

    80 Kingslayer Shadow Priest - Spirestone
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...e&n=Direshadow

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire
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    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    I actually think we will be able to compete with some of the other hybrids come next patch, but that's just me.

  8. #8

    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    Quote Originally Posted by Tihr
    I actually think we will be able to compete with some of the other hybrids come next patch, but that's just me.

    Maybe.

    Maybe I'm just pissed that other classes just face roll to get good dps, while we have to work our asses off for... OKAY... dps....

    80 Kingslayer Shadow Priest - Spirestone
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...e&n=Direshadow

  9. #9

    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    Just a question, where did you get this on EJ / shadowpriest.com:
    Quote Originally Posted by Direshadow
    Shadow Priest DPS on the PTR right now has not changed much compared to Live.
    Before SWP PTR nerf, everyone agree'd we got 10-15% dps increase. After SWP PTR nerf, we lost ~2% dps compared with last PTR patch, bring us from #2 on simcraft to 300-600 dps lower than #1, around middle of DPS chart, which sounds right to me (little behind pures, ahead other hybrids except feral druids in a single target, patchwerk-style fight). The nerf hurts, but not that terrible as the rumour some doomsayers here are spreading =p

    And I don't see the "SWP glyph is now useless" anywhere also.

  10. #10

    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    I agree, considering how little SW:P contributes to our overall DPS this technical change doesn't really hurt our DPS as much as people are making out. SW:P is about 12% of your overall DPS on a single target encounter... so losing 20% haste scaling (as a semi conservative figure, most spriests dont have 20% haste... perhaps raid buffed) it's a reduction of 0.2 * 0.12 = 2.4%

    This will also have the effect of lessening the PP value associated with haste which should make SP the superior stat (up till now there has been some conjecture about SP vs Haste). Because there will be slightly less haste stacking the effect of lost DPS is somewhat mitigated.

    I don't see this as a massive issue, it's pretty easy to QQ and say blizzard should just fix a bug or whatever, lets face it, they have plenty of bugs/content/whatever to fix/create. Not everything is a priority.

  11. #11
    Dreadlord BigGann's Avatar
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    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    The whole we are right where we should be thing really kind of pisses me off. I don't want to be #1 dps all the time, but I would like to be consistent.

    Both X-packs now we have started out on top in both dps and utility. No one can even come close to competing with us. Then as we gear up other classes see substantial increases in dps while our are minor. It continues like that until by the end of the x-pack we are at the bottom.

    You say in between other hybrids is where we are supposed to be, great, we should be there all the time. We shouldn't go from top dog to sucking hind tit because we don't scale right.

    Guaranteed, we will be the lowest dps class when geared out from ICC. Now that everyone else can have the same utility as us, there will be no more than one shadow priests in raids, something that has already started and will catch like wild fire.

    I stopped raiding right after we killed yogg on regular back in the day, I am getting back in to it now and my raid already told me they don't want my shadow priest back.

  12. #12

    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    Oh dear... =/

    I hate hearing these types of things coming from the PTR.

    I understand that we may not be as good DPS as mages or warlocks because we are "hybrids," but I wish that we could be at least competitive. I wouldn't mind if my DPS sucked because I didn't know how to play the class or because of spell priority, but I just don't like seeing a mage pressing 3-4 buttons and wiping out my DPS when we work so much harder to attain what little we have.

    My only complaint. Take it for what you will

  13. #13

    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    From the realistic point of view, after the opening priority sequence, your "work so much harder to attain what little we have" isn't working much harder, even from the mage.

    Keep Vampiric Touch/Living Bomb up
    Make sure Shadow Weaving/Improved Scorch don't fall off.
    Cast Mind Blast/Pyroblast when available.
    Devouring Plague/???
    Mind Flay/Fireball.

    Really, 1 extra instant cast global cooldown makes it that much more of a "complex" priority? Really?

    You work just as hard as them to get shitty dps, not harder.

    Mind Flay, VT, DP, and Mind Blast are still only four buttons, last I checked.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
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  14. #14

    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    You're a bit oversimplifying the Shadow rotation, and not including proper clipping of MF, and our priority cast system becomes that much more hectic with hasted DoTs demanding refresh at odd times, contributing to even further clips.

    Not to mention you chose a Fire mage, when Arcane, the more popular spec atm is 11112 -> Repeat

  15. #15

    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    From the realistic point of view, after the opening priority sequence, your "work so much harder to attain what little we have" isn't working much harder, even from the mage.

    Keep Vampiric Touch/Living Bomb up
    Make sure Shadow Weaving/Improved Scorch don't fall off.
    Cast Mind Blast/Pyroblast when available.
    Devouring Plague/???
    Mind Flay/Fireball.

    Really, 1 extra instant cast global cooldown makes it that much more of a "complex" priority? Really?

    You work just as hard as them to get shitty dps, not harder.

    Mind Flay, VT, DP, and Mind Blast are still only four buttons, last I checked.
    My main is a mage and I have an alt shadow priest. The analogy you described is completely inaccurate.

    I don't know how you can even compare scorch and shadow weaving. The two aren't even remotely similar.

    Shadow priests definitely have the harder rotation.

  16. #16

    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeön
    Oh dear... =/but I just don't like seeing a mage pressing 3-4 buttons and wiping out my DPS when we work so much harder to attain what little we have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proletariat
    Not to mention you chose a Fire mage, when Arcane, the more popular spec atm is 11112 -> Repeat
    The post I was commenting on was in regards to this comment, as we all know Arcane pushes two buttons when Fire pushes 4.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mipsy
    My main is a mage and I have an alt shadow priest. The analogy you described is completely inaccurate.

    I don't know how you can even compare scorch and shadow weaving. The two aren't even remotely similar.

    Shadow priests definitely have the harder rotation.
    Okay, name off the fire rotation?

    Keep Living Bomb up, else
    Make sure Improved Scorch doesn't fall off, else
    Pyroblast on Hot Streak, else
    Fireball.

    Am I wrong? Really?
    Then go ahead and correct me. By all means. The whole "clipping" MF doesn't really matter, nor should I care that people have addons to do it for them. That's like saying Rogues switching weapons counts as part of their rotation.

    Tell me again, how wrong I am on a Fire mage's rotation, and what it should look like.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  17. #17

    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    From the realistic point of view, after the opening priority sequence, your "work so much harder to attain what little we have" isn't working much harder, even from the mage.

    Keep Vampiric Touch/Living Bomb up
    Make sure Shadow Weaving/Improved Scorch don't fall off.
    Cast Mind Blast/Pyroblast when available.
    Devouring Plague/???
    Mind Flay/Fireball.

    Really, 1 extra instant cast global cooldown makes it that much more of a "complex" priority? Really?

    You work just as hard as them to get shitty dps, not harder.

    Mind Flay, VT, DP, and Mind Blast are still only four buttons, last I checked.
    I would say that its considerably more difficult. I wasn't speaking for a fire mage either.

    I rolled a spriest because i enjoyed the complexity of it; you have to consistently time spell casts correctly or else you may lose a lot of DPS. It still doesn't seem right to me that an arcane mage can outDPS us with >50% of thier DPS coming from ONE spell. A fire mage may have an equally or more challenging time at it.

  18. #18

    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    Shadow takes better timing than fire. Pyroblast is RNG whack-a-mole while you have to actually choose when the best time to hit MB is. Is it worth it to clip this MF? Do I wait .5 seconds to recast VT/DP or do a MF2? When multidotting, how do I decide which target to hit with DP and MBs? Do I sear or multidot? Which spell comes first when there's a conflict? DP falls off 1.5 seconds before VT and at the same time as MB comes off cooldown, do I MB=>DP=>VT, DP=>VT=>MB, MB=>VT=>DP, or VT=>DP=>MB? Shadow is based a lot more on hair-trigger decisions when the answer isn't always obvious, and poor choices often see radical DPS losses.

  19. #19

    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    The post I was commenting on was in regards to this comment, as we all know Arcane pushes two buttons when Fire pushes 4.
    Okay, name off the fire rotation?

    Keep Living Bomb up, else
    Make sure Improved Scorch doesn't fall off, else
    Pyroblast on Hot Streak, else
    Fireball.

    Am I wrong? Really?
    Then go ahead and correct me. By all means. The whole "clipping" MF doesn't really matter, nor should I care that people have addons to do it for them. That's like saying Rogues switching weapons counts as part of their rotation.

    Tell me again, how wrong I am on a Fire mage's rotation, and what it should look like.
    Because you can't overwrite a LB with a new one; it simply won't let you. If you overlap a scorch, it doesn't matter. The rest is just spamming. You refresh scorch every 30 seconds, and other mages in your raid can help keep it up.

    Shadow priests have to be so precise about when they refresh their dots. They also have to make decisions quickly. Say MB is on cooldown and you need to start casting VT in ~1.5 seconds. Instinctively, based on how you typically rotate your spells, you'll want to MF and clip it, but it may be smarter to throw in a SW to make better use of that short amount of time

    Mages never question when to refresh LB. If you aren't casting and it fades, you cast it. If you are casting and it fades, you finish casting and refresh it. It's so simple.

    Shadow priests have to work a lot harder than mages to get that perfect rotation. If MB didn't have a cooldown and mind flay didn't exist, it may be slightly more comparable to mages. Spriest juggle the MB cooldown, refreshing dots at precisely the right time and working through overlapping conflicts.

    Yes, you are wrong, I'm afraid. I raid on my mage extensively and can tell you very confidently that shadow priests are easily 2-3x harder to play correctly.

  20. #20

    Re: Shadow Pries Gurus, Help me out please

    The fire mage analogy is a bad one....

    Firstly its not the amount of buttons you push, thats somewhat irrelvant, trying to deterioate the discussion of complexity to the amount of buttons you push doesn't achieve anything.

    The fact is that spriest DPS revolves around cycles, MB has a cycle, all dots have a cycle and you fill with MF. If you delay any of those cycles by even a small amount, 1 GCD, even half a GCD it results in massive DPS loss.

    If a fire mage delays living bomb sure its a DPS loss but no where near on the same scale as a spriest. In some respects keeping up your scorch buff is a detriment to your DPS and it's quite possible you have a lock with shadow mastery making that job completely redundant. In any case you're not balancing these cycles and tryign to get them to never conflict or ensure they are performed 100% accurately for the length of an encounter. And if you do delay a cycle you don't have this massive impact on your DPS figure.

    Affliction Locks and Feral Druids are the only other 2 classes that really have the right to voice the fact that they are more complex and rely on the same cycle limitations of a spriest. However to reward that complexity they get a higher yield of return. Something blizzard said outright about feral druids, i'd like to see that mentality applied to spriests.

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