Feral DPS

[Wotch]

Feral DPS is the top SINGLE target DPS in the game right now as far as I can tell. But many of the fights in ToC have a lot of Aoe components which drags their comparative dps down. I am pulling anywhere between 6.3k and 7.5k on non gimmick fights.

As for the two druids in question.
IF ArP trinket (Mjolner or Grim Toll) is available gem Fractured Cardinals (20 ArP) in all red slots and Deft Ametrine in all yellows(10 agil 10 haste). the only blue gem in any good Feral DPS's gear should be the prismatic nightmare tear (10 to all stats). Enchants should be agility if available on that particular item or AP if no agility is available.

If no ArP trinket is available gem and enchant the same way except use Delicate Cardinals instead of Fractured.

Weapon Enchant should be Berserking for all feral DPS and I will stand by that until someone can show/link me the benefits of Executioner over Berserking.

[ramboxmb]

Feral DPS is the top SINGLE target DPS in the game right now as far as I can tell. But many of the fights in ToC have a lot of Aoe components which drags their comparative dps down. I am pulling anywhere between 6.3k and 7.5k on non gimmick fights.

As for the two druids in question.
IF ArP trinket (Mjolner or Grim Toll) is available gem Fractured Cardinals (20 ArP) in all red slots and Deft Ametrine in all yellows(10 agil 10 haste). the only blue gem in any good Feral DPS's gear should be the prismatic nightmare tear (10 to all stats). Enchants should be agility if available on that particular item or AP if no agility is available.

If no ArP trinket is available gem and enchant the same way except use Delicate Cardinals instead of Fractured.

Weapon Enchant should be Berserking for all feral DPS and I will stand by that until someone can show/link me the benefits of Executioner over Berserking.

I choose massacre over Berserking because i hate wasting random proc.

Also Arcane dps = Feral for single target.

[shagrarz]

drood1 needs to l2 read forums (kitty guide on this site is pretty good)...strength (as all the others have said) is nearly a wasted stat because of the crit loss from not using agi gear.

the hard cap for ArP is 1400...which makes it difficult to attain and hardly worth going for. from what i understand it is best to gem to soft cap (740-ish with runestone and 780-ish with grim toll) and then gem for agi (assuming they have either trinket in the first place).

as a side note, if they have less than 400-450 ArP on their gear they shouldn't be gemming for ArP in the first place. it is far better for them to go straight agi.

[Wotch]

I choose massacre over Berserking because i hate wasting random proc.

Also Arcane dps = Feral for single target.

mathematically Berserking is better than massacre over the span of an average boss fight especially if you are good at applying your dots when procs are active such as trinkets or weapon encahnts.

[Sunshine]

mathematically Berserking is better than massacre over the span of an average boss fight especially if you are good at applying your dots when procs are active such as trinkets or weapon encahnts.

And mongoose is better than either, after you hit around 10k AP. At that point, the crit and haste are more valuable than the extra small boost to AP.

[Jon]

IF ArP trinket (Mjolner or Grim Toll) is available gem Fractured Cardinals (20 ArP) in all red slots and Deft Ametrine in all yellows(10 agil 10 haste). the only blue gem in any good Feral DPS's gear should be the prismatic nightmare tear (10 to all stats). Enchants should be agility if available on that particular item or AP if no agility is available.

With current gear you'll (most likely) have to put those Arp gems into non-red sockets as well. Only after you reach the softcap you should consider Deft Ametrines.

[exochaft]

Feral DPS is the top SINGLE target DPS in the game right now as far as I can tell. But many of the fights in ToC have a lot of Aoe components which drags their comparative dps down. I am pulling anywhere between 6.3k and 7.5k on non gimmick fights.

Assuming equal gear and skill, I'd definately say we still rock single-target DPS. AoE fights, despite many people that scream Swipe as being OP, really hurt a kitten's DPS rotation for a single target. Having to throw out those Swipes not only depletes our energy something fierce, it makes it less likely to keep up SR/mangle/All bleeds flawlessly since Swipe is never in a standard kitty rotation. Classes that have aoe built into their standard rotation have it a lot easier in ToC in terms of being able to "top the meters." Even despite this, fights like Anub25 I've noticed that I always top Damage Done to Anub himself even when I'm Swiping my heart out with the rest of the AoE classes. Sure, my overall DPS looks dismal compared to the other classes, but we wipe the floor with other classes when it comes to the single-target department. I'm also a soft-cap armor pen kitty, so those white auto-attacks add up a lot.

Anyways, I digress. The only time strength would even be considered for kitty DPS is if you were probably ArPen capped (hard or soft) and soft crit capped. At this point, it's all about Str and Haste. I have a funny feeling with a sufficient amount of kitty AP, Haste will win over Str every time. Don't ask me numbers, I don't feel like crunching them atm, this is more of a common sense statement. With the current gear available, I don't think it's possible to get to the point where you would start thinking about STR/Haste over Agi/ArPen, but a precursory look at the ICC gear tells me we might actually get to that point. With my current gear and procs, I've started seeing +13k AP and 69% crit, and as I've stated before, this is at the ArPen softcap with an ArPen trinket. My kitty gear is nowhere near maximized the way I'd like it to be (it's my off-spec, so I get slim pickings), but even so, that's pretty close to the limits where we'd start talking about Haste/Str.

[Nassam]

Assuming equal gear and skill, I'd definately say we still rock single-target DPS.

you never played with a skilled arcane mage ?

[Shizznizz]

you never played with a skilled arcane mage ?

I have to admit, we WERE top single target dps'ers but now arcane mages rock the single target dps harder than we do.

[Shifthappens]

not really, our mage has highest caster gearscore in raid, 5400 or so, im sitting at 5340 and i beat him,
they beat us on DPS ONLY because they have no dots and when they stop casting/die their DPS stops exactly where the last spell landed, we got dots ticking

Arcane mage > highest DPS
Cat > Higher dmg done
DMG DONE > DPS = cats win

[Jon]

not really, our mage has highest caster gearscore in raid, 5400 or so, im sitting at 5340 and i beat him,
they beat us on DPS ONLY because they have no dots and when they stop casting/die their DPS stops exactly where the last spell landed, we got dots ticking

Interesting. Our mages and cats actually stay alive through the fights.

[Melonberry]

Depends on the length of the fight as well. The longer the fight, the worse arcane does.

[Cheezee]

I have to admit, we WERE top single target dps'ers but now arcane mages rock the single target dps harder than we do.

Because we have to drop form and innervate them.

[getefix]

If you don't fail and you run with replenishment then your mages should be sitting around 8k DPS. Personally I can't keep that throughout an entire fight, maybe someone better than me can.

And mongoose is better than either, after you hit around 10k AP. At that point, the crit and haste are more valuable than the extra small boost to AP.

Is that Raid buffed or unbuffed?

[Sunshine]

Is that Raid buffed or unbuffed?

Raid buffed. Basically, anyone in full uld gear or better should be using Mongoose, until the point when they're extremely close to armor pen hard cap where executioner might be worth it.

[exochaft]

you never played with a skilled arcane mage ?

Sure, I run with an extremely good arcane mage. The thing about arcane mages is that you can unload everything for a short fight for large DPS numbers, or spread out the bursts over longer fights (if you look at instantaneous DPS over time, you'll see arcane mages are veeeeery spiked, unlike a feral kitty, which is relatively sustained). A good arcane mage will be able to put themselves at close to zero mana when the fight ends to maximize dps. However, the effective DPS of a good kitty and arcane mage will probably run about the same on a single target fight. Most damage meters don't show effective DPS and don't account for downtime.

[kingmob]

I personally think you've got a bit of a weak attitude as a Guild Master... coming on here asking pro's to rip apart your friend's specs and gear. Not totally surprised they don't listen to you.

Wow. What a dick answer. Where did he ever say in his original post that he was gm?

Feral DPS is the top SINGLE target DPS in the game right now as far as I can tell. But many of the fights in ToC have a lot of Aoe components which drags their comparative dps down. I am pulling anywhere between 6.3k and 7.5k on non gimmick fights.

ToC is light on effective aoe actually. Melee can still get great splash dmg on kobolds in beast or adds on Anub or on jaraxus from the mistresses if people position correctly. Faction Champs and Twins have little to do with aoe. Where feral dps can suffer is all the movement in the instance but frankly there's nothing esp unusual about that or again something that can't be handled with skill and placement.

[DarkBlade6]

Tell them to look at my armory http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...jin&n=Shortpaw
im slightly over hit cap, but its not a really a big deal, since the rest of my gear is very well optimized

ArP Cap is 1400 , So with Mjolnir the ''Soft cap'' is roughly 740 (700+Food Buff) and u want 790 ArP for Grim Toll (750+Food Buff)(like me) If they cant get a hand on one of these 2 trinket, i suggest them to go full agi (10stats in one socket for the meta gem) and the rest of their socket should be fully socketed with +20agi gems, you also want to be expertise caped or close to (26)

My Spec is also a Pure DPS Spec (im specd improved leader of the pack, but one of them can remove these 2 points and also remove the 2points in survival instinct to put them in feral agression) i strongly recommend to keep Feral charge , ITS SO USEFULL, less running = MORE DPS =D

[Sworded]

Wow. What a dick answer.

I <3 irony

But let's be straight, if some random dude in my guild started asking people to 'tear me apart' behind my back, then came back to me with a list of their criticisms, I'd tell him to shove it up his arse - whether or not it may actually help me improve my dps. If I had wanted to improve my dps, I would have come to a forum, or looked on EJ and sought advice my self.

It's a game, we all pay our subscriptions, everyone is entitled to play it as they please

If the OP had said something like this instead...

"A few druids in our guild were seeking advice as to why they weren't pulling the dps that other ferals are in TOC10... can anyone give me some advice to pass onto them"

...then fair play, that would have been perfectly cool.

I guess it could be I just read too much into the semantics behind the wording 'tear them apart', because it sounded pretty aggressive to me.

[Cheezee]

Some people don't have time to pour through forums looking for the mathematical best way possible to play a video game. Some people might be offended by suggestions of ways to improve their play quality but I don't think many will be if it's done in a well meaning way. It beats being told that you have to sit because you can't pull your own weight.