Page 1 of 4
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1
    Dreadlord hellar's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    University Of Alabama
    Posts
    837

    destro dps lacking in raids?

    as ive been raiding in 25togc and other high end raids ive seen that i dont find many locks up at the top of meters. rouge mages and hunters are doing considerably more dps then warlocks are. our warlocks are very geared with all at least 3k + SP. is there a lack in warlock damg compared to the other full dps classes?

  2. #2
    Epic! Vordie's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Somewhere over the Rainbow
    Posts
    1,654

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    Recruit some non-retarded warlocks.

  3. #3
    Immortal seam's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Parking lot of Grass
    Posts
    7,237

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    I do around 5.5-6k on my lock in 213 gear, and the lock in my warriors guild does around 7-8k in 232, so I don't think so?

  4. #4
    Mechagnome
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Roanoke, VA
    Posts
    607

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    Quote Originally Posted by hellar
    as ive been raiding in 25togc and other high end raids ive seen that i dont find many locks up at the top of meters. rouge mages and hunters are doing considerably more dps then warlocks are. our warlocks are very geared with all at least 3k + SP. is there a lack in warlock damg compared to the other full dps classes?
    No just retarded warlocks

  5. #5

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    That's normal. A lot of Locks don't like to admit it though. Locks beat Shadow, Ele, Balance and are about equal with Ret and Enhance. Note: All hybrid classes. It's been that way for some time now. The other 'pure' classes are all ahead of Warlock as well as a few hybrids (Feral, Warriors, DKs). It's not a case of bringing non-retarded locks as bringing non-retarded raids. Top 3 are Druid (Feral), Mage (Arcane), and Hunter (SV). Then you get to Rogue (Combat), DK (Blood), Warriors (Fury) and so on. Warlocks are bottom 4 class wise in ToC. Regardless of what Blizz has said in the past they've made little to no effort to keep pure DPS 'slightly above' the other DPS. As soon as the copped out on Feral and said they were okay with Feral being #1 they pretty much used that as reference whenever people brought up their prior statements about pure vs hybrid.

    So we wind up with 3 hybrids specs above Locks, two specs that are on par with them and only 1 that they beat regardless of spec (Priest). If you take the top DPS spec of each class as 'optimal' then you wind up with (last I checked, could have changed mind you): Feral = Arcane > SV > Combat > Blood = Fury > Ret = Destro = Enhance > Shadow. Warlocks tied for seventh place. Anecdotal claims aside, that's what the logs have shown in ToC overall. Definitely not true of all fights though.

  6. #6

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    There seems to be a very fine line based on gear from doing okay DPS to good DPS that you see in To(g)C 25.

    Although not a lock myself (I am a mage) One week I was doing 5/6, the next after a few decent drops, finally picking up my T9.6 4 set bonus, and refining my spec I am doing around 7/8.

    Just stick with it, don't be afraid to ask in the forums for advice and make a clear list of the gear you need to get up there.
    <b>Soon</b>: Copyright 2004-2010 Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. All rights reserved. "Soon" does not imply any particular date, time, decade, century, or millennia in the past, present, and certainly not the future. "Soon" shall make no contract or warranty between Blizzard Entertainment and the end user. "Soon" will arrive some day, Blizzard does guarantee that "soon" will be here before the end of time. Maybe. Do not make plans based on "soon" as Blizzard will not be liable for any misuse, use, or even casual glancing at "soon."

  7. #7

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    That's normal. A lot of Locks don't like to admit it though. Locks beat Shadow, Ele, Balance and are about equal with Ret and Enhance. Note: All hybrid classes. It's been that way for some time now. The other 'pure' classes are all ahead of Warlock as well as a few hybrids (Feral, Warriors, DKs). It's not a case of bringing non-retarded locks as bringing non-retarded raids. Top 3 are Druid (Feral), Mage (Arcane), and Hunter (SV). Then you get to Rogue (Combat), DK (Blood), Warriors (Fury) and so on. Warlocks are bottom 4 class wise in ToC. Regardless of what Blizz has said in the past they've made little to no effort to keep pure DPS 'slightly above' the other DPS. As soon as the copped out on Feral and said they were okay with Feral being #1 they pretty much used that as reference whenever people brought up their prior statements about pure vs hybrid.

    So we wind up with 3 hybrids specs above Locks, two specs that are on par with them and only 1 that they beat regardless of spec (Priest). If you take the top DPS spec of each class as 'optimal' then you wind up with (last I checked, could have changed mind you): Feral = Arcane > SV > Combat > Blood = Fury > Ret = Destro = Enhance > Shadow. Warlocks tied for seventh place. Anecdotal claims aside, that's what the logs have shown in ToC overall. Definitely not true of all fights though.
    Dead on! ^

  8. #8

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    That's normal. A lot of Locks don't like to admit it though. Locks beat Shadow, Ele, Balance and are about equal with Ret and Enhance. Note: All hybrid classes. It's been that way for some time now. The other 'pure' classes are all ahead of Warlock as well as a few hybrids (Feral, Warriors, DKs). It's not a case of bringing non-retarded locks as bringing non-retarded raids. Top 3 are Druid (Feral), Mage (Arcane), and Hunter (SV). Then you get to Rogue (Combat), DK (Blood), Warriors (Fury) and so on. Warlocks are bottom 4 class wise in ToC. Regardless of what Blizz has said in the past they've made little to no effort to keep pure DPS 'slightly above' the other DPS. As soon as the copped out on Feral and said they were okay with Feral being #1 they pretty much used that as reference whenever people brought up their prior statements about pure vs hybrid.

    So we wind up with 3 hybrids specs above Locks, two specs that are on par with them and only 1 that they beat regardless of spec (Priest). If you take the top DPS spec of each class as 'optimal' then you wind up with (last I checked, could have changed mind you): Feral = Arcane > SV > Combat > Blood = Fury > Ret = Destro = Enhance > Shadow. Warlocks tied for seventh place. Anecdotal claims aside, that's what the logs have shown in ToC overall. Definitely not true of all fights though.
    A SV hunter has no chance to beat a MM hunter. A blood DK has no chance to beat an unholy DK. Most of those classes you listed have no chance to beat a destro lock.

    You also have horrible locks in your guild.
    Nom Nom Nom [NNF] (2 points) - When you Ferocious Bite a target at or below 25% health, you have a 50/100% chance to instantly refresh the duration of your Rip on the target.

  9. #9

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    Maybe you have a horrible guild and good locks? Check world of logs for ToC dps rankings. That's best geared players in best possible situations for them.

  10. #10

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reveil
    Maybe you have a horrible guild and good locks? Check world of logs for ToC dps rankings. That's best geared players in best possible situations for them.
    Well that also takes into account that mages should always win beasts, jurr, and twins. Unholy should always win FC. Fury should always win anub.

    They are just perfect for those fights. But overall a lock should be about equal to them. It's just the current tier.
    Nom Nom Nom [NNF] (2 points) - When you Ferocious Bite a target at or below 25% health, you have a 50/100% chance to instantly refresh the duration of your Rip on the target.

  11. #11

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    A destro lock will never top any meter in ToC if you're in a decent guild. It's possibly the worst instance for a lock ever. If you're not fearing, banishing, kiting or soaking balls, you're not able to life tap or you can't spellsteal to gain mega buffs. Not to mention there is always 1+ targets which doesnt benefit a destro lock as it will other classes.

  12. #12

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonberry
    A SV hunter has no chance to beat a MM hunter. A blood DK has no chance to beat an unholy DK. Most of those classes you listed have no chance to beat a destro lock.

    You also have horrible locks in your guild.
    Unholy wins on 2 fights in ToC over Blood. MM wins only on fights where reapplying stings isn't needed. Looks at actual logs overall in ToC and you'll get a better idea of what DPS is actually like in T9 right now. Destro is bottom 4 and has been for a while. They're also tied for the best source of Replenishment and are totally viable, so who cares?

  13. #13

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    Quote Originally Posted by Armen2
    A destro lock will never top any meter in ToC if you're in a decent guild. It's possibly the worst instance for a lock ever. If you're not fearing, banishing, kiting or soaking balls, you're not able to life tap or you can't spellsteal to gain mega buffs. Not to mention there is always 1+ targets which doesnt benefit a destro lock as it will other classes.
    Which does not mean it's lacking in dps, it only means that the mechanic of the fight in ToC benefits other class better then lock for dps. Although you LOVE a warlock's cc in some of those fights...


  14. #14

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    Isnt the mechanic,warlock dps sucks and in 3.3 still sucks.Is a scale problem with haste and others stats.Warlock going to be "sunwelled" in ICC sure,remember this.
    The only warlocks what you going to see in ICC (in hard guilds) is demon lock for support missions.
    The people that say "You also have horrible locks in your guild" or maybe YOU have bad magues,rogues,warriors in your guild etc...the numbers say the truth and warlocks sucks.


    We havent a big community like other classes to defend our interest because a lot of locks reroll DK or left the game at the start of wotlk (remember we are the second less population in wow).If you havent a big community to make pressure to the devs nothing going to change and the hybrids kick you ass from your raid spot.

    Destro->Arcane Mague
    Afli---->ShadowPriest,less(perhaps) dps,best support.
    Demon->Shamman,less (perhaps)dps,best support.

    If nothing change,warlock in ICC is a death pony.




  15. #15

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    Completely agree with Oldboy. These days Blizzard follows the design philosophy: make current raid content(at least the normal modes) available to everybody. Therefore 3.2 class changes were made with 3.2 raid content in mind - and so it doesnt make sense to say:"But on Patchwerk ur dps is fine...". You have to compare the dps locks do on CURRENT content to what other classes do(and world of logs easily shows that we simply r far behind to where we should be on 3.2 content). The developers knew which mechanics would be in place on which boss and should have buffed acordingly, i.e. if there r lots of boss+1 situations where we just suck than our single target dps should either have gotten a bigger buff or a mechanic improving our boss+1 dmg should have been introduced. If 3.3 than comes along and there r many single target boss fights making us op for 3.3 content - nerf us back in place, but PLS dont argue like some ppl did above saying it is the mechanics of the fights that make our dps bad, cause it is AFTER taking into account the mechanics of the current content that we should come out equal on average with mages, rogues and hunters.

  16. #16

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    I don't really know how the mechanics of the fight can benefit more an arcane mage than a destro lock. But anyway it depends on your raid setup. We usually have 1 or 2 locks in the raid and they play demonology cause its a huge buff to the other casters ... with togc 25 gear you can get to 4200 -4400 sp as demo lock ... and you dont lose more than 2k dps than if you play destro ..

  17. #17

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    That's normal. A lot of Locks don't like to admit it though. Locks beat Shadow, Ele, Balance and are about equal with Ret and Enhance. Note: All hybrid classes. It's been that way for some time now. The other 'pure' classes are all ahead of Warlock as well as a few hybrids (Feral, Warriors, DKs). It's not a case of bringing non-retarded locks as bringing non-retarded raids. Top 3 are Druid (Feral), Mage (Arcane), and Hunter (SV). Then you get to Rogue (Combat), DK (Blood), Warriors (Fury) and so on. Warlocks are bottom 4 class wise in ToC. Regardless of what Blizz has said in the past they've made little to no effort to keep pure DPS 'slightly above' the other DPS. As soon as the copped out on Feral and said they were okay with Feral being #1 they pretty much used that as reference whenever people brought up their prior statements about pure vs hybrid.

    So we wind up with 3 hybrids specs above Locks, two specs that are on par with them and only 1 that they beat regardless of spec (Priest). If you take the top DPS spec of each class as 'optimal' then you wind up with (last I checked, could have changed mind you): Feral = Arcane > SV > Combat > Blood = Fury > Ret = Destro = Enhance > Shadow. Warlocks tied for seventh place. Anecdotal claims aside, that's what the logs have shown in ToC overall. Definitely not true of all fights though.
    You must be raiding with some shit Rets.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Aman%27Thul&n=Vuldin


    Quote Originally Posted by laur0511
    cummunism is an utopia that cannot be applied to real life. fortunately, video games aren't real life; therefore it can be applied there, making things more fair.

  18. #18

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    Harky where the hell did you come up with that order? I suspect he's looking at his own WoL or like 1-2 other guilds' on his server. You keep saying to look at the rankings but you should link whatever you're referring to because the actual rankings disagree:

    http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play..._Coliseum/dps/
    click on the 25 heroic tab, none of the classes you named are first second or third.





  19. #19

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    Top 3 are Druid (Feral), Mage (Arcane), and Hunter (SV).
    Uhhh....3 things wrong with this statement. I would say Unholy DK > Fire OR Arcane Mage (They are pretty much tied right now, with arcane very slightly behind) > MM Hunter

  20. #20

    Re: destro dps lacking in raids?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0ldboy
    Warlock going to be "sunwelled" in ICC sure,remember this.
    As a mage I would just like to say: FINALLY!

    On a serious note, are people yet again confusing damage done with dps? Let me clarify - DPS DOES NOT MEAN JACK SHIT. The only meter people should be looking at (as dps) is damage done on that fight. For example, arcane mages push extremely high dps but they usually end up a little bit below fire mages as far as damage done goes. Why? Arcane has an insane amount of burst, they have no dots, and they have to stop often to replenish mana. Fire mages have two important dots, and can literally go through a 10 minute fight without having to evocate.

    If this doesn't make sense to some people look at it like this - you're doing Hodir, some ranged dps gets the storm cloud buff and they hit 30k dps. They proceed to pull aggro and die. That person is going to have the highest dps in the raid, but their damage done is going to be shit.

    Finally, to address the OP I would say that lock damage is a little low, and could be bumped up a bit but I really don't think it's the class that needs to be buffed and more that its just they don't do well on those specific fights, which are pretty much all gimmick fights.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •