destro dps lacking in raids?

[Ohhaiohbai]

Although warlocks are by no means on the bottom, someone does have to be. If warlocks were on top that would mean hunters and mages wouldn't be and they would be QQing. We were on top with rogues towards the end of the BC. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Things will change eventually.

[GT4]

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/classrank/8

By my estimations that gives Locks a 6.4 ranking out of 10 classes in ToC25 HC over all bosses (7.5 if we discount faction champs)1.0 being best and 10 being worst. Hardly fitting for one of the 4 pure dps classes imo.

I don't see this changing in ICC.

I hope you're aware that every single fight in TotGC is highly biased towards other classes than Warlocks and the chance for any IC raid to be like that is almost zero.

Let's take Mage as an example:
Northrend Beasts: Perfect transitions so you can use Evocate on cooldown without wasting any DPS time, huge damage modifiers in P3 burst phases that shine with Arcane Power and Icy Veins
Lord Jaraxxus: A stealable, stackable 20% damage buff - do I need to say more?
Faction Champions: You can steal their Heroism/Bloodlust here and it stacks with your faction's IIRC
Twins: Fire: Ignite getting double benefit from both %-buffs
Twins: Arcane: Magic Absorption in combination with the light/darkness buffs gives you a permanent +~1200 SP
Anub: Every Mage has to respec Frostfire (AoE) here to do comparable DPS

On top of my head I don't know any other boss in WoW that has a stealable, stackable damage buff, has a mechanic that permanently stacks Magic Absorption or lets Ignite double dip.

[Bakis]

Although warlocks are by no means on the bottom, someone does have to be. If warlocks were on top that would mean hunters and mages wouldn't be and they would be QQing. We were on top with rogues towards the end of the BC. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Things will change eventually.

problem is that when other pures, incl hunter who dont benefitt that much from gimmicks in TOC do 1000 more dps just cos they actually benefitt from upgrades and we "dont". Something is wrong then.

[FamilyGoat]

All our QQ is full of problems without solution...but is cool.

Warlock community talk about a lot of this problems BEFORE wotlk start,in the beta.What GC do?...Nothing.
Nerf us,and make what our pets like imp the balance tool...and what happends???..SHIT other time,he forget what our pets dont scale with haste and crit.
Today you can make the aprox. or the same DPS with 8 and 9.5 tier...a bad joke for us.

What is the real problem of warlocks??->GC.
Maybe GC is a good worker and a good developer team manager,but have no idea about warlocks and the warlock developer team dont work in the warlock support now,they leave for the DK job.

We need a real developer team for us like mages with kalgan or warriors with GC.

I'm not a lock, but now you know how the ele shamans feel. We asked for a buff, and told them our t10 bonuses are horribad, and they turned arround and nerfed our t9. At least demo is getting buffed come 3.3.

[Screwtape]

problem is that when other pures, incl hunter who dont benefitt that much from gimmicks in TOC do 1000 more dps just cos they actually benefitt from upgrades and we "dont". Something is wrong then.

Could you elaborate more on this? I've sort of noticed that even with a lot of upgrades, dps seems to be creeping upwards at a snail's pace. Is this not true for other clases?

[Totem]

A wise man once said "DPS is a potential, Damage is Result" so stop complaining about not doing enough DPS it doesn't mean that much except filtering PUs but a mage will always have a higher DPS you know why? he hasn't got any DoTs, he doesn't refresh anything, pure damage the whole encounter long.

Also they are going to improve our threat \o/ Locks FTW!

Indeed. It reminds me a discussion in which I wrote:
"Dps is only potential, it is the hypotetical and purely theorical power of a player; it comes to action whenever the supposed player applies his powers for the entire duration of the fight. It is like having an epic sword and using it to cut the grass."

I'm a casual player, I usually don't raid and my gear is an average ilv212. Warlock was my first choice, back in Vanilla WoW, and I never changed, just because I like the class and his abilities (I respecced only when dual talent spec came out, adding pure Destruction to the original hybrid Affli/Demo). I really don't care much about dps, nor about getting the best equips from raiding (since I don't have enough time).
My only advice is: play what you like as you like, and not what you should play in the way you are supposed to play.

LOCKS FTW!!!

[gherkin]

Could you elaborate more on this? I've sort of noticed that even with a lot of upgrades, dps seems to be creeping upwards at a snail's pace. Is this not true for other clases?

This is not true for other classes. We have gone up by 75-100% since T7 BIS, where other classes have gone up by 100-125%+, if you factor out passive AOE like Multishot or Whirlwind.

[Wheres]

as ive been raiding in 25togc and other high end raids ive seen that i dont find many locks up at the top of meters. rouge mages and hunters are doing considerably more dps then warlocks are. our warlocks are very geared with all at least 3k + SP. is there a lack in warlock damg compared to the other full dps classes?

It is just your warlocks. In a 10m ToGC Anub, as affliction I can do 5-5.5k dps. Same fight/group/buffs as destro I can do 5.5-6K+. By the time Anub is dead that is above our fury warrior, boomkin, shadowpriest, shammy, and blood DK.

Destro is great raid DPS, and the T9 set bonuses are a nice fit (I had my doubts at first).

Affliction still falls behind but we may see that change next patch.

[gherkin]

It is just your warlocks. In a 10m ToGC Anub, as affliction I can do 5-5.5k dps. Same fight/group/buffs as destro I can do 5.5-6K+. By the time Anub is dead that is above our fury warrior, boomkin, shadowpriest, shammy, and blood DK.

Destro is great raid DPS, and the T9 set bonuses are a nice fit (I had my doubts at first).

Affliction still falls behind but we may see that change next patch.

Your raid composition is the result of you doing more damage than the melee. If they dropped you for a combat rogue who knew what he was doing, not only would he equal your dps but the Blood and Fury dps would increase as well, more than making up for whatever losses sustained by losing you. This is assuming your Shaman is dropping Windfury.

And this is not an insult directed at you or your raid, but the truth of the warlock situation.

[nocturnus]

It is just your warlocks. In a 10m ToGC Anub, as affliction I can do 5-5.5k dps. Same fight/group/buffs as destro I can do 5.5-6K+. By the time Anub is dead that is above our fury warrior, boomkin, shadowpriest, shammy, and blood DK.

Destro is great raid DPS, and the T9 set bonuses are a nice fit (I had my doubts at first).

Affliction still falls behind but we may see that change next patch.

Funny to see people hardly doing 6k dps and saying its allright. You do know a single target blood dk, hunter, rogue or arcane mage can easily surpass 9k dps right? Give a DK, Rogue or warrior more than 1 hitbox and see their dps skyrocket towards 10-12k dps.

It's not only about the fight mechanics, it's about scaling and our fucked up talent tree. We do not scale as well as other classes, especially in raid groups.

[hunterxl]

if i had an lock i would just reroll pvp and own 8)

[Swagger]

I think a large part of Destro DPS lacking behind other pure classes may be because they have no personal cooldowns to pop for themselves.

With much of TotC encounters having downtime in between phases or bosses it allows classes with massive DPS increase cooldowns to shine, and I don't believe destro has any cooldowns at all unless they have a trinket to pop.

For instance, on our Hard Mode Anub 25 attempts you notice the feral druids hitting upwards of 15k DPS swiping the adds because of their ability to pop Beserking (or if you don't like to compare AoE fights a druid popping beserking on a single DPS target can do well over 10k). Most classes have some kind of cooldown that can be used in their favor, and unfortunately for you warlocks do not (unless you're Demo and Metamorphosis, which is a DPS lacking spec).

From what I can think only warlocks and shadowpriests have no personal cooldowns they can sit on to increase their DPS (along with Mutilate rogues, but you can easily go combat).

[BartolGdH]

Funny to see people hardly doing 6k dps and saying its allright. You do know a single target blood dk, hunter, rogue or arcane mage can easily surpass 9k dps right? Give a DK, Rogue or warrior more than 1 hitbox and see their dps skyrocket towards 10-12k dps.

Even if you are playing exceptionally well, it's still depending on gear, talents, and raid support (I myself only hit 6k in our 25man raid, but we - amongst other things - don't have a regular boomkin; and I'm demo).

Apart from that, you are perfectly right: it's about the bad scaling.