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  1. #61

    Re: Frost raiding DPS in 3.3

    Simcraft does a nice job of showing frost dps. I'd be quite happy taking that for my mage on 10 man runs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strykzor
    K spastic.
    Brain Freeze, Spell Impact, 2pt in enduring winter and Frost channeling are wasted points.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...p,QMJ-RO,10894
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...m,QMJ-RO,10894

    Are more accurate specs, I have n idea how good deep freeze is on bosses so they could be fairly even or the deep freeze build would be much better.
    You are a complete and utter idiot. At least take a second to read some of the other posts in the thread. To repeat (since you're obviously not capable of scrolling up): With 2 piece T10, Brain Freeze will be a dps increase. On top of the fact that Brain Freeze is already a useful talent - situationally useful, since it won't do much to your standing-still-and-nuking dps, but how many fights allow for constant standing there and nuking anyway ?

    Just a note on this, tested frost dps in VOA 25 today in preparation for the patch. Ended up around 5.5k ish dps on most fights, in my admittedly pretty poor gear, but a lot higher on damage done than I expected (don't need to evocate at all really). The thing I'd note is I had close to 100% up-time on Brain Freeze with 3 points in it. I wasn't using the Brain Freezes unless I moved, so assuming you will use them as soon as they proc once you have 2 pieces of T10, that's pretty much a constant 12% haste, which is very nice indeed.

    Frost doest still need more buffs: Glyph of Frostbolt needs a buff (to maybe 15%, since I still don't think this would make people use it for PvP). Deep freeze needs to work correctly with shatter - I don't believe it does at the moment. Glyph of Deep Freeze needs changing to -anything- else. Glyph of Ice Lance needs buffing to more than 4 times - something more like 6 times. Water Elemental needs better scaling. But I'll quite happily take these buffs to play frost again for 10 mans

  2. #62

    Re: Frost raiding DPS in 3.3

    Deep Freeze seemed quite OK with shatter in the latest PTR build. It's consuming one charge and critting most of the time. With raid buffs in a 25 man raid, it should have an almost 100% chance to crit.

  3. #63

    Re: Frost raiding DPS in 3.3

    Well at least that's good to hear. I had read somewhere that it was consuming the wrong number of charges, and wasn't being affected by shatter. But I can't remember where/when I heard that, so now I can look forward to frost a little more

    edit: Just out of interest, Tiga, do you have any numbers of Deep Freeze from the PTR ? I've heard conflicting stuff everywhere. Some places tell me that they're seeing 25k crits from it. I saw a formula of how to calculate it somewhere else, and with my (admittedly low) current spellpower it came out as something like a 9k non-crit. Any insight ?

  4. #64

    Re: Frost raiding DPS in 3.3

    Quote Originally Posted by KresnikHellfire
    Well at least that's good to hear. I had read somewhere that it was consuming the wrong number of charges, and wasn't being affected by shatter. But I can't remember where/when I heard that, so now I can look forward to frost a little more

    edit: Just out of interest, Tiga, do you have any numbers of Deep Freeze from the PTR ? I've heard conflicting stuff everywhere. Some places tell me that they're seeing 25k crits from it. I saw a formula of how to calculate it somewhere else, and with my (admittedly low) current spellpower it came out as something like a 9k non-crit. Any insight ?
    I did read the same thing about consuming the wrong amount of charges etc. It was on EJ, within a few days Deep Freeze was changed. It was fixed by the next patch, so it should be working now.

  5. #65

    Re: Frost raiding DPS in 3.3

    9K non-crit seems about right when you are not raid-buffed and no trinkets procced. It will hit a lot harder in a raid, because it scales pretty well with spell power and then you get curse of elements of top of that too. Lhivera estimates that deep freeze crits will be approximately twice as high as frostbolt crits. In a typical raid, my frostbolts top out at about 15k crits, so that would make deep freeze crit for up to 30k in a raid. That's assuming there are no encounter-specific damage-magnifying effects - on Jaraxxus last Wednesday, max frostbolt crit was 25k. On Icehowl, it was about 28k. Frost will have the potential to hit Icehowl for 112k in two global cooldowns when patch 3.3 goes live (but you use cold snap to do it, so it's a long cooldown).

  6. #66

    Re: Frost raiding DPS in 3.3

    while running instances today (5man) my deep freeze was critting on average for 21k. while frostbolts were only critting for 12k max since im not maxed on gear. just for a frame of reference on how hard it actually hits. on bosses like jaraxxus i can see this puppy hitting some obscene numbers for sure.

    also I was sitting on the training dummy and my ele pet is only capable of 500 dps with him being out 24/7. how is having him out for only a fraction of the time giving u 880some dps? that just boggles my mind.

    another thing to note when comparing training dummy dps. it doesnt do EITHER spec justice.... Frost isnt able to use deep freeze on the dummys. and that spell alone was accounting for at least 10% of my dmg on boss fights probably more i cant remember. Arcane loses dps on the dummy because there is no slowing effect. (anyone not speccing into TTW with arcane is an idiot). so yea comparing dps on dummies. bad idea.

    also arcane gains sp from intel which in a raid is increased alot with kings and motw. another thing is mana = dmg for arcane. so anything to benefit them like mana tide. innervates. hymn of hope. replenishment. wisdom. mana spring. even revitilize. will translate to more dps if the mage knows what hes doing. Also effective use of frost wards and fire wards on certain fights will gain even more mana for the mage making him able to lean on arcane blast alot more and do more dps overall.

  7. #67
    Old God Swizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Frost raiding DPS in 3.3

    remind me again...what was your point?
    BfA Beta Time

  8. #68

    Re: Frost raiding DPS in 3.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Thnika
    also I was sitting on the training dummy and my ele pet is only capable of 500 dps with him being out 24/7. how is having him out for only a fraction of the time giving u 880some dps? that just boggles my mind.
    Totem of wrath/demonic pact, curse of elements and other raid buffs/debuffs will boost the pet. Mine was hitting for 2k and critting 3k on Icecrown Citadel (25 man). Including heroism etc, it will end up at around 900-1000 dps. It scales better with external spell power buffs than with your own spell power.

  9. #69

    Re: Frost raiding DPS in 3.3

    How dare you guys try to frost as the spec you most enjoy using! Go arcane or fire! Math math math! EJ! 3.2! Template!

    ...I'm just poking fun at the folks in this forum who are so anti-frost; I believe I saw a "I can't believe you people are still trying to justify frost..." blah blah blah. Don't listen to those asshats. Blizz is clearly trying to make frost more pve viable, and I think this is a nice first step. I'm assuming there will be more changes to that end at cataclysm.

  10. #70
    Old God Swizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Frost raiding DPS in 3.3

    Quote Originally Posted by lumnights
    How dare you guys try to frost as the spec you most enjoy using! Go arcane or fire! Math math math! EJ! 3.2! Template!

    ...I'm just poking fun at the folks in this forum who are so anti-frost; I believe I saw a "I can't believe you people are still trying to justify frost..." blah blah blah. Don't listen to those asshats. Blizz is clearly trying to make frost more pve viable, and I think this is a nice first step. I'm assuming there will be more changes to that end at cataclysm.
    yeah, and when THOSE changes come, i may go frost. until then, and as long as frost is a near 2.5k DPS behind arcane and fire, i'm not going to spec it. no serious raiding guild would even let you in the raid if you were frost.
    BfA Beta Time

  11. #71

    Re: Frost raiding DPS in 3.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle
    yeah, and when THOSE changes come, i may go frost. until then, and as long as frost is a near 2.5k DPS behind arcane and fire, i'm not going to spec it. no serious raiding guild would even let you in the raid if you were frost.
    Nor would I try to raid as frost (right now), but I'm not going to bash those are going to give it a shot to find out what kind of numbers it puts out now.There's simply too much of a negative connotation attached to it that really needs to be put to rest so people can put forth valuable information (such as we find in this thread) without being subjected to a barrage of negativity. Just sayin' is all.

    -----------------

    On a different topic: Seeing as how frost uses practically no mana to begin with, I'd forgo clearcasting and grab one of the other two utility talents (Arcane Fortitude and/or Magic Absorption) to fill in those needed arcane points. I remember one test mentioning that it took 18 minutes of constant spamming before they ran out of mana, and I don't know any fights that last (or SHOULD last) 18 minutes, so I think it's a winwin. Thoughts on this?

  12. #72

    Re: Frost raiding DPS in 3.3

    Quote Originally Posted by lumnights
    On a different topic: Seeing as how frost uses practically no mana to begin with, I'd forgo clearcasting and grab one of the other two utility talents (Arcane Fortitude and/or Magic Absorption) to fill in those needed arcane points. I remember one test mentioning that it took 18 minutes of constant spamming before they ran out of mana, and I don't know any fights that last (or SHOULD last) 18 minutes, so I think it's a winwin. Thoughts on this?
    Yes to MA, no to fortitude. Fortitude won't do anything for you. Then again, I guess clearcasting won't either, so pick your favorite useless talent.

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