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  1. #21

    Re: Seals Reworked to Function as a Resource

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmhammer
    It's expected that auto-attack does the most DPS out of melee classes' abilities because it uses no resources. However, you'll notice that seal damage for Paladins is doing nearly 150% of the DPS of auto-attack based on those numbers.


    Again, you don't see that as a problem?
    I don't see it as a problem. As someone said earlier - it's how Retribution Paladins work, if you don't like it then change specs or re-roll. I praise your creativity and ingenuity for coming up with this system, but obviously this is not where Blizzard want paladins to be moving to or otherwise they would be on their way there :P.

    Let's also not forget that wayyyy back in the past, judgements used to consume seals. This was annoying and the reason I decided to level a druid instead - it was the most retarded system ever. While yes, your system seems to require a little more thinking it just seems more annoying, then fun.

    Note: Sorry if this post seems a little disconnected - spent the night at the pub .




  2. #22
    I am Murloc! Nienniora's Avatar
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    Re: Seals Reworked to Function as a Resource

    Quote Originally Posted by Seragan
    Let's also not forget that wayyyy back in the past, judgements used to consume seals. This was annoying and the reason I decided to level a druid instead - it was the most retarded system ever.
    way back is a year, its something they should have kept for wrath

  3. #23

    Re: Seals Reworked to Function as a Resource

    Quote Originally Posted by Nienniora
    way back is a year, its something they should have kept for wrath
    I am one of the few that actually liked the only Seal + Judgment system as well.

    It's only flaw was that Paladins did not have the mana to keep the system effective. That would have been fixed with JoTW alone.

    The new seals have always seemed absurd to me. They do far too much damage, require no thought, and there is virtually no reason to use the non-damage seals.
    (Parentheticals)

  4. #24

    Re: Seals Reworked to Function as a Resource

    I must elaborate why I did say it was retarded too. First character ever (think I started it just after BT came out) and pretty much, poorly geared, etc. ran out of mana fast.

    I'm sure that it would have made ret dps just a little more enjoyable during end-game content. I can't comment though - cause I never got there on my paladin :P (think I stopped at level 10 :P).

    Although, wouldn't you guys miss out on dps from the on-hit procs that go with seals after they're consumed, thus gibbing yourselves?




  5. #25

    Re: Seals Reworked to Function as a Resource

    One major reason they remove re-sealing was because there was a Judgment Macro that automatically reapplied your seal.

    This proved that there was no point in making the mechanic separate when everyone that min-maxed used the macro to reduce the human portion of the re-seal equation.

    If seals were reworked to be like Savage Roar and Slice 'n' Dice perhaps it could be interesting.
    I agree Paladin dps needs more thought put into it, both in production and in-game execution.

    However your supposed changes are clunky and honestly confusing.
    What if Deathknights had 5 runes?

    Also where's the aoe spells? A glorified cleave isn't enough.
    Every class has some kind of aoe ability at the moment... Except Warrior.. >.>

  6. #26

    Re: Seals Reworked to Function as a Resource

    Repent would be ridiculous. A 1 min incap with 15 sec CD able to be used at a distance? Really? Sheep heals people, Sap has to be close, ect ect. Neither are as strong either >_>.



    Stop making ret changes that hurt other specs. I do not care if Prot and Holy could get a talent to change this or correct it to make it easier or whatever, why should I get a talent to basically let me fix something broke for DPS so they could get some stupid gimmick for a baseline ability?



    Also, seals are our most weapon damage and passive do to mana issues. You buff the power of a skill and you have to buff the cost of it, so you would just OOM faster. So no, it really is NOT broken for most weapon damage to come from that.


    Also, no, we will not be getting something to replace the mana bar before you say it, sorry.




    Stop making up ideas that only help one spec in PVP and do not even cover what they need (according to most). PVE rets are doing just fine, they do not need a change like this. PVP ones want a distance closer/interupt (Your Repent idea was terrible), not to be totally reworked for bad reasons.






    Also; why do you post ideas like this on MMO champ? Like the people who can change it bother reading it here when they have their own forum for it >_>.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    I [opinion] [cataclysm feature] and you should to. Anything who disagrees with me that [cataclysm feature] is [opinion] is a big [insult].
    I asked all of my friends and they all agreed with me that [cataclysm feature] is as [opinion] as it is possible to be.
    Blizzard are so [opinion], what [compliment/insult]s they all are!

    There, now we can stop posting new topics in the Cataclysm forum altogether.
    And if you disagree with me you're an [insult].

  7. #27
    Stood in the Fire Hanzan's Avatar
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    Re: Seals Reworked to Function as a Resource

    Quote Originally Posted by Copain
    Also; why do you post ideas like this on MMO champ? Like the people who can change it bother reading it here when they have their own forum for it >_>.
    Then why bother reply on topics you think is stupid?
    (Oh, and just becouse YOU think these kinds of topics are useless at MMO doesnt mean the majority feel the same...)



    On topic;
    I like the way you think, as the first poster said: "This could be a step in the right direction"

    You dont remove the "unique thing about paladins (the seal system) and yet you changed it in a good way. maybe another dmg-ability could be nice.

  8. #28

    Re: Seals Reworked to Function as a Resource

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanzan
    Then why bother reply on topics you think is stupid?
    (Oh, and just becouse YOU think these kinds of topics are useless at MMO doesnt mean the majority feel the same...)
    I bother because I enjoy pointing out flaws and hearing people explain themselves in annoying ways.

    Oh, and tell me, how are they? Lets say there was an idea that worked well with all pally specs, and not jut Ret like Herp derp, all of the ones lately (Seriously, aside from Ronark most people come up with ridiculously annoying ideas for Ret, and almost always just Ret). Then what would it matter? If it coems here it will not do anything, Bliz will not read it or see it.


    Even then, the ideas here are mostly going to be read by Paladins, who typically see themselves as underpowered here or there and need a boost (If you look around for awhile, every class thinks that) and would agree with this idea, and it would not get the many responses from many different classes that would look at the suggest forum at Bliz and share their problems with it.


    The actual POINT of a discussion area of Paladins is to talk about them. A new talent seen on the PTR? Lets talk about how it will change us. Tier stuff posted? What do we think about it? and so on. But with a suggestion in a change? Well even if we all like it, it doesnt mean a thing, because this is not the place for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    I [opinion] [cataclysm feature] and you should to. Anything who disagrees with me that [cataclysm feature] is [opinion] is a big [insult].
    I asked all of my friends and they all agreed with me that [cataclysm feature] is as [opinion] as it is possible to be.
    Blizzard are so [opinion], what [compliment/insult]s they all are!

    There, now we can stop posting new topics in the Cataclysm forum altogether.
    And if you disagree with me you're an [insult].

  9. #29

    Re: Seals Reworked to Function as a Resource

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmhammer
    It's expected that auto-attack does the most DPS out of melee classes' abilities because it uses no resources. However, you'll notice that seal damage for Paladins is doing nearly 150% of the DPS of auto-attack based on those numbers.


    Again, you don't see that as a problem?
    different class, different mechanics.

    Rogs majority dmg comes from auto attack.

    BM hunter - a large chunk comes from pet.

    Different class/spec, different ways of doing dmg. Stop trying to shove *your vision* onto others as the mechanic is some kind of ebola everyone should try to get rid of.

  10. #30
    Stood in the Fire Hanzan's Avatar
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    Re: Seals Reworked to Function as a Resource

    I see your point in that these kinds of discussions are alittle "weird". But as you pointed out yourself, this is a place for paladins to talk. Then it shouldnt matter if its a paladin class quest-related question or an idea for a new talent.
    Yes, unfortunatly most "idea to new talent" is a retribution talent. But i think the mechanics behind that spec is idiotic. It is an unique way to fight, but its too dependant on annoying things. It needs to be changed, so why dont talk about it here?
    And to add a more "unimportant" thing...I am playing a Warrior, i just enjoy looking at what other writes about their own class becouse im getting very tired of warrior topics like "New to fury, need help!" etc etc...

    Oh, and i really really hate that most paladins have a holy and/or prot spec which makes them as-close-to immortal as possible. Its like hitting a concret wall with a letter-opener. I would LOVE to see people post ideas about this, to change it for the better. But none does, becouse people dont want to change something that is very good...as u said...

  11. #31

    Re: Seals Reworked to Function as a Resource

    I quite like his idea, and this thread helps me to re-affirm myself as smarter than 99% of the WoW population. boo hoo, i'd have to relearn another class, hurr durr whambulance. LEARN?

    LEARN?


    If you call spending 20 minutes on a target dummy learning a simple priority and rotation system LEARNING, please dear god just try to stay under your rocks as much as possible.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Thunderlord&n=Bro

  12. #32

    Re: Seals Reworked to Function as a Resource

    Quote Originally Posted by JukeSkywalker
    I quite like his idea, and this thread helps me to re-affirm myself as smarter than 99% of the WoW population. boo hoo, i\'d have to relearn another class, hurr durr whambulance. LEARN?

    LEARN?


    If you call spending 20 minutes on a target dummy learning a simple priority and rotation system LEARNING, please dear god just try to stay under your rocks as much as possible.
    Yeah, you are smart. Totally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    I [opinion] [cataclysm feature] and you should to. Anything who disagrees with me that [cataclysm feature] is [opinion] is a big [insult].
    I asked all of my friends and they all agreed with me that [cataclysm feature] is as [opinion] as it is possible to be.
    Blizzard are so [opinion], what [compliment/insult]s they all are!

    There, now we can stop posting new topics in the Cataclysm forum altogether.
    And if you disagree with me you're an [insult].

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