3.3 Poison Changes Discussion.

[RAPTYR]

once stacked five times each application apllies other poison

so what if u run with deadly on both weapons will they just keep triggering?

i know im not the only one that thought this but ill ask it

[ThatOneDude]

once stacked five times each application apllies other poison

so what if u run with deadly on both weapons will they just keep triggering?

i know im not the only one that thought this but ill ask it

Well if it was to proc it would only proc once per attack. I doubt you would have continuous proccing poisons lol.

[Separate]

All I see is a dps increase on this. I have heard alot of people bitching about rogue dps not scaling well with the new gear on the PTR, which I dont see possible with the recent envenom damage/deadly changes and now this.

[Gajan]

once stacked five times each application apllies other poison

so what if u run with deadly on both weapons will they just keep triggering?

i know im not the only one that thought this but ill ask it

All it would do is continue to reset the 5 stack of your poison dot. That would actually be a bad thing because it would tick less times due to being constantly reset. That's how I understand it to work anyways.

EDIT: Spelling

[Separate]

I guess you haven't raided 3.2 much, have you? Rogues are by far on the lower end of the DPS charts. I get out DPS'd by EleShamans, Boomkins, Hunters, Warlocks, Mages, and on depending on the fights Retadins. Not because my DPS is low, infact I outgear most of those people. But because of 2 major factors: no gear bonus and how the fights are fought. Mutilate NEEDS alot of time to sit still and just DPS because everything is gradual. Most other classes ( I listed ) gain DPS in chunks and spikes. And because Blizzard doesn't want to make fights boring it's hard to do tank and spank and be fun for the community. Therefore we will NEED a DPS increase otherwise Mutilate will be useless in comparison to Combat where they at least have CDs for moments of burst and heightened DPS. Though with these type of changes it -may- make Mutilate DPS too high on single target, but it won't matter if the fights aren't played out too long.

And wow I guess I missed this post, sorry for the double but...just wow. As Toxin said sounds like YOU are actually the problem. Have you been playing World of Warcraft or a completely different game? First off if you are getting spanked by Ele Shamans AND Boomkins, that means you are the last one on the damage meters taking their spot LOL. Arcane mages are normally the ONLY class that can get close to putting out the dps a rogue in the same BIS gear I have out. Sorry to say that but its true.

[RAPTYR]

just wondering cause the way i read it was


Deadly Poison now has an additional effect - Once stacked to 5 times, EACH application of Deadly Poison also causes the poison on the Rogue's other weapon to apply.

so every deadly proc be it main or offhand can proc the effect right?

if its on both what happens?

seems to me that it doesnt matter the hand its on. its going to proc whatever poison is on the other hand and so what if its another deadly will that proc also and then keep this cycle going? cause that would be incredible

[Ian]

just wondering cause the way i read it was


Deadly Poison now has an additional effect - Once stacked to 5 times, EACH application of Deadly Poison also causes the poison on the Rogue's other weapon to apply.

so every deadly proc be it main or offhand can proc the effect right?

if its on both what happens?

seems to me that it doesnt matter the hand its on. its going to proc whatever poison is on the other hand and so what if its another deadly will that proc also and then keep this cycle going? cause that would be incredible

You could conceivably put DP on your MH, IP on your OH, and yes, the MH DP applications would proc the OH IP.
However, if my understanding of the mechanic is correct, DP applies at a static 30%, thus there is no benefit to putting it on your MH over your OH, plus, what do you do in the event it is about to fall off? You would have no shiv to reapply it.

[darkriver41]

just wondering cause the way i read it was


Deadly Poison now has an additional effect - Once stacked to 5 times, EACH application of Deadly Poison also causes the poison on the Rogue's other weapon to apply.

so every deadly proc be it main or offhand can proc the effect right?

if its on both what happens?

seems to me that it doesnt matter the hand its on. its going to proc whatever poison is on the other hand and so what if its another deadly will that proc also and then keep this cycle going? cause that would be incredible

But that way you only get 100% DP uptime and miss out on IP damage. You should be able to keep 100% DP uptime (or close to it) without chaining DP.

[Fenii]

so, how will it be?

i get so confused reading these things, since my english isint perfect

So it will be like before IP on MH and Deadly on fast OH? and it's just getting boosted in that way?

some-one clear my mind if its possible :P

[Javanface]

Instant Poison on Main Hand, Deadly Poison on Off Hand. Business as usual.

[Ian]

Simplest change ever. Just keep doing what you have been doing, and your DPS will be higher.

[Fenii]

Thanks Javan and Ian ^^

So good to see that Assassination is finaly getting some boosts ^^

But yeah, will the rotation get any diffrent?

Like Shiv and stuff?

Maybe you dont know yet ^^ But yea

Thanks in Advance and thanks again :P

Edit, Dose this also mean that Stacking pure Attack Power and Enchant moongose be more viable? :P

[Ian]

Thanks Javan and Ian ^^

So good to see that Assassination is finaly getting some boosts ^^

But yeah, will the rotation get any diffrent?

Like Shiv and stuff?

Maybe you dont know yet ^^ But yea

Thanks in Advance and thanks again :P

Edit, Dose this also mean that Stacking pure Attack Power and Enchant moongose be more viable? :P

Keeping a 5-stack of DP will be very important, so shiv will be useful, just like it always has been for keeping up a stack that is about to fall off.
Until the math has been done it's too early to say, but most likely whatever stats are good for you now, will continue to be good for you.
Mongoose is dead. Leave it dead. Apparently there are certain specific situations where it still has its uses, but for the vast majority of us it will not out-do 400ap.

[Wikko]

Seeing as people whine rogues dps being to low atm, it's only due the fact that we cant change our gear from t8.5 to t9 unless its close to BiS. Ofcourse you cannot beat others with tier lower gear. All these maths etc are based on that you're wearing BiS gear. Some should also remember that not everyone has the opportunity to achieve that gear.

[Dharenna]

Seeing as people whine rogues dps being to low atm, it's only due the fact that we cant change our gear from t8.5 to t9 unless its close to BiS. Ofcourse you cannot beat others with tier lower gear. All these maths etc are based on that you're wearing BiS gear. Some should also remember that not everyone has the opportunity to achieve that gear.

Sure you can change. It only takes 3 pieces of ilvl245 (offset) gear to break T8x4 set bonus.
If you are in guild that cant obtain it, then your "competitors" cant either. Case closed.

Another story is specific pieces. For example, ilvl258 2hander can be obtained from Faction Champs in heroic 25 colliseum
and this axe makes your DK's, retris, even Arms warriors to pull so much ahead just because they need just one weapon.

To compete even at near BiS, we rogues need 2x weapons, and iLvL258 MH weapons drop from considerably harder encounters,
Twins and Anub'arak. But this topic got derailed now ... 8)

Focus on ICC patch in near future, maybe Clearcasting bug reaches to Live servers so we can all go QQ at arcane mages!

[Ian]

Actually the OH Axe drops off of Jaraxxus, arguably the easiest encounter in ToGC.
The MH Axe off of 10ToGC isn't that much behind the 25m counterpart either.
It's not weapon availability that makes us fall behind.

[Dharenna]

Actually the OH Axe drops off of Jaraxxus, arguably the easiest encounter in ToGC.
The MH Axe off of 10ToGC isn't that much behind the 25m counterpart either.
It's not weapon availability that makes us fall behind.

I was referring to relative difference for obtaining 2h Axe, heroic Justicebringer http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47078
which makes top weapon for DK/Retri/Warrior from heroic Faction Champions.

By time your/our/their guild gets Anub25 down, every 2hander class got their axes

"MH Axe off of 10ToGC" is ca 150 dps behind of its 25 man heroic counterpart weapon.
150 dps raidbuffed, lets say - as 8500 vs 8650 or so.
Its actually a lot, its all that needed or lacked to be #1 or to stay #2 on sustained "patchwerk" phase charts.

[Ian]

I was referring to relative difference for obtaining 2h Axe, heroic Justicebringer http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47078
which makes top weapon for DK/Retri/Warrior from heroic Faction Champions.

By time your/our/their guild gets Anub25 down, every 2hander class got their axes

"MH Axe off of 10ToGC" is ca 150 dps behind of its 25 man heroic counterpart weapon.
150 dps raidbuffed, lets say - as 8500 vs 8650 or so.
Its actually a lot, its all that needed or lacked to be #1 or to stay #2 on sustained "patchwerk" phase charts.

I'll agree with about half of your post. Although, RNG combined with murphy's law guarantees that heroic justicebringer doesn't drop. ever.
My guild has been farming heroic FC since you could farm heroic FC and has gotten exactly one.