Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

[Dadodil]

I like this set-up. Being the server-first to beat ICC will actually mean something, as will actually killing Arthas.

No, this will mean that server-first ICC won't go to the actuall top-server guild - it'll go to the jackasses that log on first the day the Arthas encounter is released getting several hours head-start.
If anything server-firsts will mean less then before.

[Unholyground]

Modern Warfare 2 is owned by this guy, the same person that has made all these changes to World of Warcraft happen, and i refuse to buy it.

He is the same guy that owns all the Guitar Hero and Band Hero games. There is an increasing number of people boycotting his games, because of the way he does things.

Look him up on the Internet if you want to learn more. You may end up boycotting his games too.

Well What about Mario???? lol Also I was reading that the next Modern Warfare is going to have an online monthly fee for content....

[The_Flying_Dog]

Excellent setup if you ask me. With easy flipping of normal to hard they had to do something like this. Force players to actually complete the instance on normal before being able to jump to hardmodes. Much better solution than the "you have to do this or that to activate said hardmode in Uld crap"

I'd also like to know how many posters here complaining about this have actually done any of the ICC encounters on the PTR. Or are they just going by what they've heard from others?

To those using the "this is LKs last raid before Cata" card to support their disapproval of this system I can use that card to. Since this is the last major raid of Lich King don't ya think they wanted to make it especially epic feeling? What's so epic about staying up all night in order to clear the raid in one go just so you can stroke your e-peen on some pointless world first crap?

Quote for zeh truth

[xxpoohbearxx]

Well What about Mario???? lol Also I was reading that the next Modern Warfare is going to have an online monthly fee for content....

I edited my reply to say that i love Mario, but dont have a Wii

All his games are designed to milk money, if he could put everything on a milking subscription fee he would.
I'm not saying that everyone hates this idea, but i most certainly do and is the primary reason i refuse to buy any of his games.

He is a fat cat in a fat suit, and i don't like him.

[PopeJamal]

I would like to remind the more "srs bzns" members of the community that you have, indeed, brought this upon yourselves.

It's not the fact that you try your best to speedball your way through all the content at once...
It's not the fact that you incessantly complain about almost EVERYTHING being too easy, or "a joke"...
It's not the fact that you incessantly complain about the gear and where and how it's all handled..

It's the fact that you do ALL of these things and then sit around and talk about how utterly BORED you are. Well you know what, you highlighted a piece of low hanging fruit, and they just snatched it off of the tree and handed it to you, and essentially told you to "Eat it!". Be careful what you wish for.

Besides, if you're going to complain regardless of what they do, why should they give you all of the content at once? Either way, in the end: you still pay, you still play, and you still clear the content.

[webzagar]

Way to post an attempted counterargument that not only fails to take into account the rest of my post, but is actually already refuted by it.

Next time, don't try to edit peoples' comments just to take out what you want out of context, and address the whole thing.

Limited attempts is a daft artificial way of limiting a fight which opens up a group to being completely screwed not by any failure on their part, but by the simple fact that the intertubes are fickle and prone to failure.

If the same people are disconnecting at the same points on the same fights week after week, then they are using an out of date addon in their raid UI and are too lazy to figure out what it was and update it or disable it. They are getting spammed by LUA errors and getting booted. So those folks need to fix their UIs simple as that. If it was an ISP issue, then their ISP sucks, but that too is an easy fix by calling your ISP and asking "what gives?" But ISP issues would dictate random DCs. You described broken addons booting people. I was having DC issues myself until I realized it was a random titan panal gold counting addon that was broken. The mod in particular had nothing to do with raiding. But it would always crash my connection at the worst times.

My point still stands. Ask yourself, how do the extreme hardcore raiders avoid DCs and the like? It's because they run with no addons that could potentially disconnect them. They keep everything updated all the time and don't just click the "Load Outdated Addons" button on patch day.

[Rowen]

Translated:

We have to announce that since the release date of Cataclysm is being delayed and another troll raid would be lame we need to get as much juice out of the last raid instance as we can. So we're implementing this delayed access thing and not actually open the whole instance for God knows how many weeks. Also we''re implementing a NoT (Nerfing over Time) on it. I hope you continue enjoying your ToC.

[Overweight]

Actually, i find the system sort of elegant...

gated content sucks, i agree, but atleast its more than one boss. OK

As far as the attempts go, it's only the final boss of each wing, and will be increasing over time. 5 attempts per boss doesn't seem unreasonable, and as you get good at the easier ones it leaves more attempts for the more difficult fights... cool

Having to beat the other hard modes before you can fight hard arthas is great. It leaves the casuals to see him on easy, and leaves the best of the best loot in the hands of top tier raiders... sure, it may not be totally unique, but even the cloaks in toGC are a good example of standing out. Honesly, I kind of hope hard arthas has another tier of gear just a step above the hard modes... really makes things cool.

As far as the buff goes, the fact that you can turn it off makes me think you'll have to for hard modes, which means easy modes get even easier for casuals, while hard modes stay hard.

At first glance, the system sucks... but when you actually stop and think... its actually a fairly elegant idea.

[Rogel]

Won't you get more frost badges through daily heroic at first than from the instance that drops them? lol

[Nirron]

Intresting

[zaneosak]

All I can say is, this is the final content patch, you honestly thought they would let us complete it so fast. I am sorry but the answer is no, it has to last at least till may when the Cataclysm events begin.

HEre's an idea for blizzard:

IF YOU DONT WANT US TO COMPLETE IT FAST MAKE IT FUCKING CHALLENGING INSTEAD OF FACE ROLLABLE CONTENT. I MEAN FUCK.............

Ulduar for 4 months was acceptable b/c it was fun, you could spend alot of hours in there and progress and really feel accomplished when you beat the hard modes.

blizzard just turned the milestone instance into a snooze fest, who the hell wants to be excited for four bosses then wait "Several Weeks" for new content, these assholes should of released this shit the minute Anubarak ToGC died if their gonna make us wait 1 month for every 3-4 bosses.

[Tefty]

I would like to remind the more "srs bzns" members of the community that you have, indeed, brought this upon yourselves.

It's not the fact that you try your best to speedball your way through all the content at once...
It's not the fact that you incessantly complain about almost EVERYTHING being too easy, or "a joke"...
It's not the fact that you incessantly complain about the gear and where and how it's all handled..

It's the fact that you do ALL of these things and then sit around and talk about how utterly BORED you are. Well you know what, you highlighted a piece of low hanging fruit, and they just snatched it off of the tree and handed it to you, and essentially told you to "Eat it!". Be careful what you wish for.

Besides, if you're going to complain regardless of what they do, why should they give you all of the content at once? Either way, in the end: you still pay, you still play, and you still clear the content.

I love you man, i want your babies...

This man for god ^^^

[Fugazi]

Oh the drama...

I like it but have some problems:
- cockblocking normal mode
- when you waste all attempts you cannot finish off instance on normal mode
- lag/DC + very low number of attempts = unhappy people

[Sinister Knight]

The last thing I'm going to say about this is you really should look at what we're actually supposed to be assaulting. Icecrown CITADEL. The home of Arthas, the Lich KING.

Do you really, REALLY think Blizzard is going to want 25 schmucks to blast their way through without hardly breaking a sweat and "killing" the Man himself?

It's a fortress, that literally ARMIES have not been able to break into. Hundreds and Thousands of undead at his command.

If you think for one moment that it should be fantasy-movie style 2 1/2 hours and the final boss is dead format, you're sadly mistaken.

The gating lets it play out like a story. You progress slowly through the chapters, absorbing the content and enjoying the detail and effort put into it.
No one likes the guy who skims over the plot just to find out who killed the main protagonist/antagonist and how the story wraps up. "Hey guys did you know that Vader is Luke's father? Man that's a great twist!" "..."

If you're not the cream of the crop in the Forward Vanguard of the assault, you will get chopped down and you will have to retreat and treat your wounds and recuperate from your losses. Wait for reinforcements and try the assault again. If however you are that top 1%, you will learn the bosses' weaknesses, acquire your upgraded armor and weaponry, and study battleplans while you wait for the next assault to commence. You will still know that you were the first to conquer the adversaries that were available, while the Lich King shakes his fist at you from high on top of his parapets and prepares for the next wave of assaults on his home. Either that or he chuckles in his Frost Rune platemail, clutching his beloved Frostmourne and smiles knowing that the would-be heroes have yet to see the true power of his lieutenants and champions (aka Heroic versions).

Hardcores will want to download all the episodes from pirate websites and watch them all over 12 hours in 2 days, bitch about the cliffhanger ending and then QQ about how long until the next season is out. Casuals are content to wait for the special edition DVD box set and see everything at their leisure even if the new season has already started.

True fans will watch the episodes as they come out, eagerly waiting for the next episode to air, talking about the good and bad of the episode they just watched while they wait, maybe even watching it again to see a particularly cool scene or look for something they might have missed the first time. They know when the next episode will be, and they accept that. I suggest you all do the same. That is all.

[gnoop]

Sure, you can claim that this is done to make it feel more epic. Is that really the case? Not likely. You're stretching things.

You have 2 things going on. The first gating (only certain bosses available at all upon release) means the later bosses don't need to be finished at patch release, buying them more time.

Second, it keeps people actively subscribed longer. Once people are more or less done with ICC raids, there's nothing but waiting until Cataclysm hits. Solution? String the raid out.

Me? I have no worries. Once raiding starts to fizzle out in the Cataclysm countdown, I'll be back to what I did while waiting for WotLK; leveling alts with friends.

[xxpoohbearxx]

FUCK ME. not this bullshit designed to extend the usefulness of content again.

/not buying cat.

The problem is, for every 1 true WoW fan pissed about this (and might eventually stop playing), there are 10 new players who will sign up to try World of Warcraft who have never played it before.

Sucks doesn't it.

[blargh312]

Fuck this limited attempt bullshit. This shit is just lazy.

[Omedon]

You want to raid seven days a week? That is unhealthy. Not only is it never said anywhere that WoW will keep you entertained every single night of the week, it shouldn't.

this.

This can sum up *a lot* of the "damnable (commendable, IMO) casualizing" of the game. People have debated for years the ethics of the crack-like marketing of the MMO, that it encourages physical and social unhealthiness. Well, this is the responsible answer. Encouraging poopsockers is unethical business. Keeping you "around" in one form or another is smart business.

There are multiple demographics and lifestyles that make up the WoW community. Placing the "winner's circle" in a place only attainable through unhealthy practices is just asking for trouble, in a world where McDonalds is sued for a customer's obesity.

Just my two cents. Raiders and casuals are all, potentially, good people, and I have respect for everyone's right to pursue their fun in their way, but don't be surprised when limitations for your own good AND theirs are put in place. This is their sandbox you're playing in, after all.

[zaneosak]

The last thing I'm going to say about this is you really should look at what we're actually supposed to be assaulting. Icecrown CITADEL. The home of Arthas, the Lich KING.

Do you really, REALLY think Blizzard is going to want 25 schmucks to blast their way through without hardly breaking a sweat and "killing" the Man himself?

It's a fortress, that literally ARMIES have not been able to break into. Hundreds and Thousands of undead at his command.

I love the lore, I love the story and it holds 1/2 of my excitement for the new raid. But blizzard can't have it both ways. You can't say "Ulduar is gonna be hard, but not really, do easy modes and thats what casuals are for, Hard modes are for the people that want to progress and be the best" and then flip the script and give 1/4 of the raid content a month, then put attempt limits on hard modes and gate the instance. Casuals get to go to ICC and raid and pug easily on normal mode. If a group of 10 or 25 people want to burn through to Arthas in the first week and then focus on hard modes and bang their heads into the brick wall of the zone until the nerfs happen thats their choice. It's just fucking retarded to do this to people after sticking us in ToGC with 5 trivial bosses for 3.5 MONTHS.

[frequency]

Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

Raids will have a limited number of attempts total each week to defeat the four most difficult encounters in Icecrown Citadel: Professor Putricide, Blood-Queen Lana'thel, Sindragosa, and the Lich King. As these boss encounters are unlocked, the number of attempts available per week will increase. The initial number of attempts provided for defeating Professor Putricide is only five. When Blood-Queen Lana'thel unlocks, the amount of total attempts remaining will increase to 10. Then when Sindragosa and the Lich King unlock, 15 total attempts will be available to defeat all four bosses. After a raid has exhausted their attempts for the week, the Ashen Verdict must withdraw their support and the four most difficult bosses all despawn and become unavailable for the week. The limited attempt system is a feature of both Normal and Heroic difficulty.

Limited attempts are for the last 4 bosses of ICC only, not the entire zone. You may wipe every 5 minutes, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for the first 6 bosses.