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  1. #161

    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    Quote Originally Posted by Bladesyphon
    Basically I'm reading this as "Oh snap guys, Cataclysm isn't even close to being finished by our target release date! WE NEED A WAY TO KEEP THEM BUSY!"

    So instead of a 3.4 with a Necron-style TRUE FINAL BOSS, we got a massive filter-feed of content from one patch that's supposed to keep people busy for the next six months... This was not one of your better planned out ideas, Blizzard. Honestly, you would have been better off postponing ICC's raid until 3.4, just release the 5-mans, new LFG interface, and the Quel'delar quest line in 3.3, and than release the raid in a 3.4 patch closer to Cataclysm's release date without the obvious stalling for time that you're doing in 3.3.

    A+ work, Blizzard. You're really showing your professionalism here as a game developer.
    Either way, they're giving us the same content.
    You're just saying they should spread it out. That wouldn't mean they're doing any more work as a developer.
    They're just giving us a MASSIVE content patch with plenty to do, and enough time to do it all before Cata comes out. The hardcore players have a chance to achieve lvl 80 perfection, and the casuals can pug heroics and get emblem gear so they can pug ICC 10 and 25 and down the Lich King eventually. Everybody gets the time to do exactly what they want.

    As for the limited attempts, at least it doesn't limit attempts on EVERY boss. Only the hardest boss in each individual section. So it doesn't lock you out from TOO much loot if you use up all your attempts

  2. #162

    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    Quote Originally Posted by Sersly
    Hardcore raiding guilds wanted it to be hard. Not this carebear crap that's easier than finding which hole the square peg goes into. It's insulting.
    This is not carebear. It's far from it. It's a failed design system that is bad for both casual and hardcore.

  3. #163

    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    Quote Originally Posted by xxpoohbearxx
    I didn't imply Robert had any say in designing content.

    I implied he is stealing your money and is probably the guy most respsonsible for imposing maximum milking from your monthly subscription fee, hence Blizzard feeling the need to impose artificial time limits to make you play longer.

    In no way is it a QQ, it's just an insight to what i perceive the truth to be.
    Suit's ruin fun and steal your money.

    Human history has always been like this, and now it's extended to World of Warcraft.

    Remember, Blizzard is a company and wants you to give them as much money as possible. Even if it means you dont have fun.

    Enjoy being milked
    You're assuming he has ANY say in what Blizzard does by assuming this system is to "milk" players for their money and he's behind it. It certainly isn't stealing when every WoW player bought the game and subscribed out of their own free will.

    Blizzard is a business yes but do you believe every Blizzard employee is only in it for money? Money they have. Subscription numbers in the millions they have. The best of the best employees who love what they do they have.

    A lot of people stick with a crappy job because they need the money to live but Blizzard doesn't operate that way. These people love the game as much or more than we do - they just can't always give players what they want. Their reasons may not always be clear but I'm sure they do have them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ique
    no one is satisfied with the limitation on tries.
    blizz make games for who? themselves? why don't give the players what they want? who is paying to play this game? this system will improve nothing, just will make people complain.
    i already quit wow because it has lost its magic. good luck to the brave ones still there.
    A lot of people are happy with this change. Read all the posts.
    Blizzard employees are gamers too ya know. But they also know they can't give everyone everything they want. Think of it like a parent and their child. Just because the child wants a cookie before dinner doesn't mean they should get it. It's up to the parent to decide what's right and wrong and in the best interest of the child.
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    Deathwing will come and go RAWR RAWR IM A DWAGON
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyCasual View Post
    There's no point in saying this, even if you slap them upside down and inside out with the truth, the tin foil hat brigade will continue to believe the opposite.

  4. #164

    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror
    This is not carebear. It's far from it. It's a failed design system that is bad for both casual and hardcore.
    I just meant the current raids in general, in the context of the person i was quoting. ^_^

  5. #165

    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    The first 5 paragraphs of the blue post were.. acceptable, i dont necessarily like it but meh its not the end of the world.

    The last 3 paragraphs however... wow. Not only do we get stuck with a gated system to hold back raiders but we also get miniscule attempt limits slapped on as well?

    Gates and Attempt limits do not make a raid more difficult for hardcore raiders, it just annoys EVERYONE.



    I can understand the need/want for a gated system on Blizzards end, they dont want us to complete icecrown in the first day, but i really dont think they see why its not fun for any mid level raider and up. For most guilds each gate will only take a day or two to complete leaving the raiders having to go back to previous content to fill in raid days. In sunwell and ToC it wasnt all that bad as most guilds still had reason to go back to the previous raid tier thus filling up a raid week... however at this point its completely different with the size/difficulty of ToC. ToC only has 5 bosses, is a complete joke on normal, is a complete joke on heroic up till anub, not to mention anub is an incredibly boring fight and we will all most likely be full up on gear minus the few random items that never seem to drop. I just figured that they made 3.2 so miniscule because they wanted to pimp out icecrown... but its starting to look like that isnt the case.

    As a raider i raid 5 nights a week, its what i enjoy in wow and thus is the only reason i choose to log into the game, i personally dont enjoy anything else. This kind of gated and attempt limit system is what ruins the only fun i find in wow. I surely know not everyone feels the same as me but i personally do not enjoy having the amount of content i can experience at a time being segmented by gates yet to be opened simply to keep the top handful of guilds in the world from clearing an instance in a matter of hours. I could however live with this inconvenience if there was other content to do, sadly ToC is already cleared in a single night by most guilds leaving us nothing to do but go outside.

    The attempt limit system (and algalon hour) is even more infuriating. I can understand the theory behind it, those who learn fast progress, those who cannot will not gain access, it sounds good on paper but sadly wow is an online game. Being punished for something you have no controll over is the wrong way to design a raid instance. Having players internet disconnect and cause a wipe is something that cannot be predicted, buggy encounters (hi gormok the disconnector) wasting precious attempts, server problems and all the other glorious random things that happen now and then actually determine if you can even engage a boss that week rather than simply cause your raid to run back is ludicrous. These things happen and waste attempts all the time and we live it with, its unavoidable most of the time and can be quite hilarious every now and then. The fact that nomatter how skilled we are we could still have something unfortunate and unavoidable happen and lock out our raid week is just plain wrong. Having an entire raids fate rely in the hands of the unknown is a great feeling. Thats not to say its going to happen every attempt and ruin everything, but you see what im saying, having something random just be random is ok, but limited attempts makes randomness into the premature end to your raid week.

    The worst part is that they say "several weeks" between gates being opened... 1 boss/gate per week was annoying... but now we will have to wait "several" weeks between gates being opened? We will actually have to go outside after we clear the current progression bosses in a single night and find something else to do for the rest of the week. I surely hope "several" turns into "each week", 3-4 weeks between new bosses would just make it obvious they have nothing else planned between now and Cata and want to string us along.

    They could certainly overtune the bosses to be insanely difficult but lets be realistic, ToC was easier than ulduar and they seem to want to make "normal" modes be childs play so they can let everyone see everything. Hopefully im wrong but right now it just seems to be a huge mash of everything annoying from previous raids.

  6. #166
    Epic! ScorchHellfire's Avatar
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    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    only 5 attempts a week even when people are learning the fights? mmmk... all i know is that those first 4 bosses are going to be very old/tired/boring by the time we are attempting the lich king...

  7. #167
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    All I can say is, this is the final content patch, you honestly thought they would let us complete it so fast. I am sorry but the answer is no, it has to last at least till may when the Cataclysm events begin.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

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  8. #168

    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    Quote Originally Posted by Sersly
    You know there's a big difference between it taking too long because its challenging, and taking too long because blizzard said "Nope you can't do this right now, its LOCKEDED!".

    Hardcore raiding guilds wanted it to be hard. Not this carebear crap that's easier than finding which hole the square peg goes into. It's insulting.
    The same hardcore raiding guilds that are still having problems with anub 25hc?
    Yeah right, those people are really hardcore..

    If content is to hard, people cry.
    If content is to easy people cry.
    You all scream about how great sw was, well, here's sunwell for ya.
    Or did everyone forget that sw was gated aswell?

    I like this, no more brute forcing "muru" down in 170 attempts and then calling yourself a pro guild.

  9. #169

    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    Quote Originally Posted by Sersly
    I just meant the current raids in general, in the context of the person i was quoting. ^_^
    Ah, OK. My apologies then.

  10. #170

    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    God forbid they actually make it challenging and give a sense of urgency to not screw up!

    First, you get limited attempts on the last bosses of the 3 final wings + Arthas.

    If you run out of attempts on one of those guys you still have all the other (non final) bosses in each wing to kill.

    You gain more attempts over time, (read each week you'll probably gain 2 or 3 more tries) So in a couple months you will have 20+ attempts plus raid buffs + better gear.

    The only thing this hurts is the PUG community. But since blizz is putting a stronger emphasis on guild leveling in Cata, this kind of 'bring who you know and your A-Game' progression is what is needed. This will weed out the bads and force people to find guilds and learn to work together.

    More time for alts is a good thing imo.

    Personally I wish they would tie in the opening of gates to dailies like they did with Sunwell and make it into a server event when a new wing opened.

    And those saying they won't have shit to do in this game:

    You'll have time to do other stuff in the game instead of raiding. In the last week I've made 10,000 gold just having fun with the auction house and finding neat isolated places to farm for 90 minutes at a time. Things I didn't have time for when I was raiding 5 nights a week. Work on achievements, do Ulduar hardmodes. OS 3D. Naxx Undying. 40 exalted reps. Find ways to challenge yourself!

  11. #171

    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    To all you people saying 'LOLOOL NO LIFERS YOU CANT RAID 7 DAYS A WEEK', they only raid 7 days a week when progressing. What do you think they do after they clear all content? They clear it all in one night, what do you think they do for the other nights? O that's right real life stuff.

    Now they don't even get that initial week of excitement before the mediocrity returns.
    'u get constant hit by ice shit from roof so you can travel instantly all across the room'

  12. #172
    Legendary! Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    Quote Originally Posted by Abb
    lol... 5 attempts at each boss in the first week they are out? Top guilds aren't going to like this.
    Its only the "big" bosses and its only one available first week so its 5 attempts on him, then they add 5 for each new "big" boss that gets available until all 5 I think it was is available.

  13. #173

    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister Knight
    I really would love to see/run with these "casual" guilds that have ToGC 25 complete. I really, really, REALLY would. My guild is in the semi-casual bracket, we finally got ToGC 10 complete, and we don't even have Beasts down on 25 GC. Why? because we would have to be more HARDCORE to get the right people, right coordination, and right amount of dps/tanking/healing required to do so.

    Casual guilds will not kill Anub 25 Heroic. Show me otherwise. Please. If I'm wrong, great I'll have proof given to me. Without that proof, it's all just meaningless bullshit from everyone else.
    Casual doesn't mean bad, man. Casual means you have less time to spend on the game than others, I can believe there are guilds with ToGC25 cleared as casual guilds. Gear is a non-issue as Blizzard has thrown it at us in this expansion, so assuming people know how to press 4 buttons on any class DPS/Tanking/Healing isn't an issue.

  14. #174
    High Overlord Orvanoc's Avatar
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    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    I quite enjoy the idea of slowly progressing through icecrown, and enjoy the idea of an attempt system even more, it adds a feel of realism to the raid. (Inb4 LUL WARCRAFTS + REALISM? LOLOLOLOL)
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  15. #175

    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    look on the bright side guys, at least we wont have to wipe like 300 times on a single boss, like muru.

    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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  16. #176

    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    Rofl imo they're just preventing icecrown from being cleared in 2 or 3 weeks hah.

  17. #177

    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    Quote Originally Posted by talrob
    To all you people saying 'LOLOOL NO LIFERS YOU CANT RAID 7 DAYS A WEEK', they only raid 7 days a week when progressing. What do you think they do after they clear all content? They clear it all in one night, what do you think they do for the other nights? O that's right real life stuff.

    Now they don't even get that initial week of excitement before the mediocrity returns.


    ^THIS^

  18. #178

    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    This really really suxx. Period. Give the WHOLE instance out at least... don't wanna wait a whole month for new content... omfg

  19. #179

    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    Oh well, more slow pace action. What I see happening is this:

    1) Casual Triumph badge farming with the new system leading to..

    2) Easy killing of the normal mode ICC even by casual standards thus boring even casual (epic in its own right)

    3) Being so tired of ICC front encounters, that when you finally make it to Arthas, you're like, finally, can we just get this over with, I'm tired and wanna go to bed...

    Honestly, for [us] endgamers, (and I can fully understand and even I side with casual access) there is nothing to strive for save, "finish this quest-line". I agree and think everyone needs to have access to every fight. But if there is no reason to achieve a perfect clear etc, then honestly Blizz, your just truly saying to endgame guilds that try hard to be the best they can, "Sorry guys, sit this one out till Cataclysm"

    The only accomplishment I ever felt in ToC was clearing it with 50 left. We don't even get that in ICC. Sorry, but I honestly do feel disappointed. (it took that blue post to make me post my 2nd time ever on MMO)

  20. #180

    Re: Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth
    5 tries on first week?
    So we wipe 5 times and go back to TotC for the rest of the week?
    "Raids will have a limited number of attempts total each week to defeat the four most difficult encounters in Icecrown Citadel: Professor Putricide, Blood-Queen Lana'thel, Sindragosa, and the Lich King"

    I don't get the reading issue some people have...

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