Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

[Thurokiir]

Why do people the game less want to be as good as the hardcores?

Hardcore players are the people that go to forums, check spreadsheets, analyze rotations, stare at haste to sp equasions and break down fights for max hps/dps.

If you're not this player then odds are, all of this tripe about "HARDCOER vS CASUALLOL" means nothing and you just want to play this game. If you're a casual and you're posting here, you're just a hardcore that got throttled back because you couldn't handle your real life.

Frankly the jealousy over a video game is sad. If you really care about enjoying this game by your self as a casual. Then go off, enjoy your normal modes, enjoy being terrible and wiping to easy encounters.

Oh, you cant play any more? you blew your 5 attempts in your casual guild? Welp that sucks lol, at least the hardcores one shot it.

[Rea]

1) Trying to get away from that raid like hell for a few weeks then easy mode farm for a few months sort of deal
2) Lessen the gap created between the hardcores and casuals during progression
3) Trying to create a more balanced and rewarding play experience whether you can devote 20 hours a week to the game or 5.
The third point is the most important, and they are going through a trial and error period while trying to create a game experience that brings you to that point.

I think you are 100% wrong on 2 and 3.
The gap is being closer thanks to the gates, but limiting a total of attmps is the worsest for all guilds expect the really hardcore ones.
Hardcore guilds can have 25 of the same persons on there raids everyday, together with the fact that they used to raid more, they kill new bosses faster. But, for a casual guild and all guilds who used to raid 2-5days a week, they are having a hard hard hard time. They cant get 25 of the same persons for that 1 night every week, and if they can, they have another 10-15 people on the guild who are missing every single raidnight.
If this goes on, im sure that guilds are falling appart. Just because 25 people on a guild can raid, not the other 10-20 who used to hope for a next day.

[pheneom]

Tanks are going to need a HIGH amount of Aviodance for this raid. There is no way a tank with i-lvl 219 going to servive that raid. Mostly tanks with ToTC 10 and 25 man, I thinking would be the minimum gear requirements before you have a go at IC 10

As for the healers.. Erm.. from what I am seeing on the PTR. Its going to be very intensive for all healing types.

Its going to take awhile most of the lower social/casual raiders are able to do IC 10. I guess we can all dream of the gear that drops but Dont expect this raid to be easy or a push over.

[Dimebagd]

This design affects the casuals as much it affects the hardcores, many casual players will be pushed aside for perfect raiding conditions on the limited attempts bosses. Guild drama WILL happen because the wasted attempts on casual guilds (this doesn't affect the hardcore, they will down the boss on the first week, with the 5 attempts).

This.
Forget the casual and hardcore pace crap because the casual/hardcore thing is a stupid topic and always will be.

The main thing is exactly what this person has said.
Gated is nothing, we've seen it before and while yes it can be annoying it does make the raid last a bit longer which can't be a bad thing. (remember how much many hated naxx after a billion clears starting week 1/2)

IT'll cause soo much drama in less casual guilds that the game will end up being not soo fun for many and in a way its forcing a hardcore way of doing things. (same people,perfect setups etc etc)

Limited tries on normal mode is the worst thing to ever happen to raiding and with more and more crap happening with each patch, it kinnda promises more dark, shitty days ahead in wow.

[muwatallis]

It has become boring in 3.2, now it's getting there to more boring with 3.3. I was a bloody fan of WoW and now i can't even feel like reactivating my account for the Lich King.

[AuthurDent]

Lol... you mean like having full T9 set from Triumph badges? If peeps don't have 4 set of varied T9 levels (232,245,258) by the time IC pops... then you have created a new classification below that of Casual but just above Noob. And once the patch pops... we're talking Heroic Farming of the badges. Then even these "Noosuals" canl have an adequate set of set for 10/25 Normal IC in a week. Not to mention the long list of welfare epics from ToC 5 man and IC 5 mans...

Tanks are going to need a HIGH amount of Aviodance for this raid. There is no way a tank with i-lvl 219 going to servive that raid. Mostly tanks with ToTC 10 and 25 man, I thinking would be the minimum gear requirements before you have a go at IC 10

As for the healers.. Erm.. from what I am seeing on the PTR. Its going to be very intensive for all healing types.

Its going to take awhile most of the lower social/casual raiders are able to do IC 10. I guess we can all dream of the gear that drops but Dont expect this raid to be easy or a push over.

[det]

OMG, stop already! You guys should hear yourselves:

"Naxx shitty, Ulduar shitty, TotC shitty, now ICC shitty." How about you

A) wait how hard the bosses will be on normal and actually PLAY the damn instance before you complain
B) quit already, because obviously Blizzard has been shitting on you for 1 year now and will do so for another. But no "...maybe Cataclysm will be better". Yeah, keep on moaning and keep throwing your money after them. Then moan some more.

I am looking forward to ICC btw - and to more QQ on this forum....

[zaneosak]

I don't understand how anybody is agreeing to the system at all.

I could live with the gating if it was every week like ToC, the attempts thing makes no sense for a normal mode and for heroic mode its still a stretch. They are letting things totally out of our hands dictate whether we succeed or not in hard mode content. Tank DCs engaging putricide? Woops 20% of that first weeks attempts gone. How is that fair? There are so many California Blizz-fanboy's around its unbelievable.

If WoW was free it would be less of an arguement. You're paying for a service and they are now giving you limits on how you spend your time using it.

The whole christmas schedule thing is stupid, if you cant get your people on to play, take a week off. Nobody is forcing you to take part in the World 1st chase except YOU.

The whole gating system is cheap and lazy. If you feel you have to slow progress down for some reason it should be done through the difficulty of the encounters, not by some arbitrary gating system.

I want to have the choice to raid 20 hours per week on new content, why cant i be allowed to do that? Is it unreasonable to want to spend my time on WoW however I want?

I'm still excited for ICC but I guess I am just very disappointed that I have to wait another 3 months to see the conclusion of one of my favortie WoW storylines. I was very pscyhed to know that we would see how it all panned out before the years end. Now we have to wait until March.

[Decrepit05]

I'm fine with the gated system I think it will build and build excitement towards the final showdown, it keeps people from looking forward to the next unlock. It allows Blizzard time to adjust or add extra things as we march on in ICC. It also delays the influx of crazy PVE gear into Arena/BG's. It keeps people in the same timeframe of the game, instead of months and months behind when the said top guild killed him 4 months ago.


As per usual, many posts on here didn't read all that was said, and like to blow that one thing way out of proportion. It's not possible to please everyone all the time, person's x's $15 isn't > than person's y's $15. With the buff and the attempts raising every week it's really only 'bad' for the first couple weeks, again it tries to keep as many players in the same timeframe. Sure it also delays the game out, which is probably only a small factor in Blizzards decision. Top guilds will still be top guilds, guilds don't rate other guilds on regular kills anymore(doubt they regate for HM), skill shouldn't be determined by who raids the most.

There we go again, some people think this somehow evens the playing fields from casuals/hardcores.
It doesn't. Sure we will all have access to the same bosses at first, but "hardcores" are going play more and are already geared more, will have this first phase on farm for their mains and alts while most "casual" guilds are still trying to kill all the bosses. Therefore, once the other phases are released, once again the "hardcores" will be more geared, kill the new bosses first and be the first ones to have access to and kill the LK, they will still be the ones doing the first hardmodes, getting the first achievs and mounts.

How exactly does it even up the playing field?

It's a stall and a bad one at that, nothing more

[Decrepit05]

I don't understand how anybody is agreeing to the system at all.

I could live with the gating if it was every week like ToC, the attempts thing makes no sense for a normal mode and for heroic mode its still a stretch. They are letting things totally out of our hands dictate whether we succeed or not in hard mode content. Tank DCs engaging putricide? Woops 20% of that first weeks attempts gone. How is that fair? There are so many California Blizz-fanboy's around its unbelievable.

If WoW was free it would be less of an arguement. You're paying for a service and they are now giving you limits on how you spend your time using it.

The whole christmas schedule thing is stupid, if you cant get your people on to play, take a week off. Nobody is forcing you to take part in the World 1st chase except YOU.

The whole gating system is cheap and lazy. If you feel you have to slow progress down for some reason it should be done through the difficulty of the encounters, not by some arbitrary gating system.

I want to have the choice to raid 20 hours per week on new content, why cant i be allowed to do that? Is it unreasonable to want to spend my time on WoW however I want?

I'm still excited for ICC but I guess I am just very disappointed that I have to wait another 3 months to see the conclusion of one of my favortie WoW storylines. I was very pscyhed to know that we would see how it all panned out before the years end. Now we have to wait until March.

How can anyone not agree with this? People complaining about how much time other guilds spend on raids are either jealous they cant spend the time, mad cause they can spend the time but suck at the game or both. We have already waited a year for the friggin LK when the entire xpac was hyped around him.

They have hyped this patch for months and right when its about to hit, they hit us with this BS and completely ruin it. While the new LFG system may make it easier to farm dungeons....who in the heck really wants to farm dungeons for badges AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN...

[Unholyground]

There we go again, some people think this somehow evens the playing fields from casuals/hardcores.
It doesn't. Sure we will all have access to the same bosses at first, but "hardcores" are going play more and are already geared more, will have this first phase on farm for their mains and alts while most "casual" guilds are still trying to kill all the bosses. Therefore, once the other phases are released, once again the "hardcores" will be more geared, kill the new bosses first and be the first ones to have access to and kill the LK, they will still be the ones doing the first hardmodes, getting the first achievs and mounts.

How exactly does it even up the playing field?

It's a stall and a bad one at that, nothing more

I personally don't care either way, gives me lots of time to get all 6 of my 80's ICC gear :P

[Miranger]

This will only further the gap between "hardcore guilds & casual guilds"
Hardcore guilds already demand you to put 15+ raiding hours a week just because hard modes demand a restocked active raiders and casual guilds just want to show up get loot and log out

It's making it harder for those of us kinda in between from hardcore and casuals to find a guild that will be able to do hard modes and not spend months just trying to unlock these bosses.

[mrroboto40]

Spell: Blizzard Bomb
Effect: Every player in World of Warcraft is now casual.

[MusikDisaster]

So casuals will never complete this raid?

[risex]

There we go again, some people think this somehow evens the playing fields from casuals/hardcores.
It doesn't. Sure we will all have access to the same bosses at first, but "hardcores" are going play more and are already geared more, will have this first phase on farm for their mains and alts while most "casual" guilds are still trying to kill all the bosses. Therefore, once the other phases are released, once again the "hardcores" will be more geared, kill the new bosses first and be the first ones to have access to and kill the LK, they will still be the ones doing the first hardmodes, getting the first achievs and mounts.

How exactly does it even up the playing field?

It's a stall and a bad one at that, nothing more

It doesn't make casual's suddenly better, it doesn't level the playing field I never said it did. What I did say is that it keeps more players up to date, and more in the now, close to end progression. Sure the top guilds will be there sooner than other guilds, but more guilds will be at the lock door than without it. They will farm it more which will get them to the next gate faster than another guild. Guilds that typically put it more time racing for the finish line will now be hamstrung and slowed by gates, allowing other guilds to get to that same gate, granted not as fast, but more guilds will be 'in the hunt' for world first Arthas. I'm not in a casual guild, nor a hardcore guild, we are typically a 3 day raid guild that has cleared ToGC. Guilds that push harder than 3 days typically in the past have an advantage than one one that doesn't. Decked out heading to the next raid instance, helps propel them faster through the next content. Nothing changes that, but it evens out a bit the 5 days vs. the 3 day guilds(initially), casual will still be casual, bad's will be bad.

[iluwen_de]

What I did say is that it keeps more players up to date, and more in the now, close to end progression.

Why the heck do people think that is is desirable that as many players as possible reach "Game Over" after a few weeks and have no new and exciting content in front of them for MONTHS?

I hate to be at the point of "Game Over" in an MMO, because it means the designers failed...

[Decrepit05]

Why the heck do people think that is is desirable that as many players as possible reach "Game Over" after a few weeks and have no new and exciting content in front of them for MONTHS?

I hate to be at the point of "Game Over" in an MMO, because it means the designers failed...

Well then you always have the CHOICE to progress however you want, nobody is forcing you to do anything.

There are people who want to do it as fast as possible, for whatever reason doesn't matter, because they are being FORCED into a certain playstyle.

So they are preventing a bunch of QQ about no new content by creating a bunch of QQ about limited content, I fail to see how one is better than the other.

[Decrepit05]

It doesn't make casual's suddenly better, it doesn't level the playing field I never said it did. What I did say is that it keeps more players up to date, and more in the now, close to end progression. Sure the top guilds will be there sooner than other guilds, but more guilds will be at the lock door than without it. They will farm it more which will get them to the next gate faster than another guild. Guilds that typically put it more time racing for the finish line will now be hamstrung and slowed by gates, allowing other guilds to get to that same gate, granted not as fast, but more guilds will be 'in the hunt' for world first Arthas. I'm not in a casual guild, nor a hardcore guild, we are typically a 3 day raid guild that has cleared ToGC. Guilds that push harder than 3 days typically in the past have an advantage than one one that doesn't. Decked out heading to the next raid instance, helps propel them faster through the next content. Nothing changes that, but it evens out a bit the 5 days vs. the 3 day guilds(initially), casual will still be casual, bad's will be bad.

Yea this limited stuff basicly, does nothing but allow "casual" guilds to catch up. Whats the point? If you aren't gonna be a world/server first on anything regardless (which is over rated imo) then why do this at all?

It's just a poor attempt and a stall, give us the content already and work something out if cata is that far off, thats what we pay for...not this limited content.

[Anvar]

It's so obvious why they stretching the Icecrown Citadel...

Cataclysm.

They need it to last long enough to keep you happy for more time than usual. It's not because of casual or any of that rubbish.

[Alianthos]

Kinda funny thread...

"Player 1 : Opinion A"
"Player 2 : Omg player 1 you're wrong, the truth is Opinion B"
"Player 3 : No, player 2, Opinion A is the way to go"
"Player 4 : random nerdrage"
"Player 5 : Don't worry guys i totally understood this, read what i write please : Opinion B"
"Player 6 : insults on player 2 and 5"

and repeat.