How important is Hit on a Prot Paly????

[Offhand]

If u miss with one spell some1 will die.. so ye.. its important

The amount of dumb people with their emotional theorycrafting is astounding. I thought it was common knowledge at this point that the order of optimal threat stats was str > BV > Hit > expertise. But seeing as we've all caught the stupid, let me post that link again for you.

Notice that in the hit rating graph, at no point does hit become better then strength. The only way for hit to become better then str/BV is to hit the BV cap for ShoR. You need about 2900 BV (from a combination of STR and BV) before this becomes the case. This is not something any maintank reaches because block is not a stack worth stacking. If we're to look at the BV items worth using in ToC, there's only two (the tier helm and the heroic 10 man shoulders).

You don't need any hit rating for ToC. The sole reason for hit is the possibility of taunt sensitive fights, of which there is one in ToC (Gormok) and if you're taking hit over defensive stats for Gormok, you're doing it wrong.

Now, back to what I was talking about, emotional theorycrafting. No one in this thread advocating hit rating as important has come up with any reason why. They've posted how much hit rating they've determined appropriate (whether it be the cap or something else). There is no reason to do this, other then the unrealistic assumption that that a tank will miss on every global.

Let's assume you're opening up on a fight. This is the only point in which a dps will realistically pull from you. On the run in, you get one global while running and one hit on the boss before dps open up. That allows you to use hand of reckoning, AS, and ShoR before a dps touches the boss. Assuming anyone of these lands, you will be able to start your rotation and maintain aggro.

With zero hit rating, you have a 0.0512% chance of all three missing. I don't think a twentieth of a percent is something to worry about, if 0.05% of wipes are your fault, you're doing pretty good.

[Copain]

BTW, about Gems, I believe it is best to put stam/agi in the slots, not Stam/Def or Just Stam.

Stam/Def might help as it can give you more Dodge/block/parry, but I believe Agi is more handy (cannot prove it though, not in the palce to look at it).






As for hit, someone stated if you miss an attack someone would die... No >_>... Tanking is not like DPSing, while we rarely miss our spells even with low hit rating (Noted by Offhand in the previous post), we can miss an attack here or there with almost no penalty; unless you are really challanging someone on threat, but even then it would not be too much of an issue.




EDIT: I mention Tanking is not like DPSing to say that we suffer less from a miss. A DPSer can lose a good chunk of DPS from missing, where as a Tank will not exactly lose all of his threat on a miss and have someone die, (As Keilar said)

[chopnfat]

Thanks Offhand for your post. It's very clear and to the point.

Strength is something we tend to get on our gear regardless of gear choice (besides trinkets, rings, enchants and gems I guess). Hit on the other hand often comes at the expense of dodge, parry or expertise (T9 legs comes to mind).

So does this choice simply become a question of more avoidance vs more threat?
And in that case, could expertise (until hard cap) be considered a better hybrid stat?

[Needonboots]

Now, back to what I was talking about, emotional theorycrafting. No one in this thread advocating hit rating as important has come up with any reason why. They've posted how much hit rating they've determined appropriate (whether it be the cap or something else). There is no reason to do this, other then the unrealistic assumption that that a tank will miss on every global.

I has a reason! Holy Wrathing Shadow Strike on 10 man, as the offtank I'm assigned to just deal with it alone. That, and that alone, is why I have hit. Since I tank our "B Team" runs, we're still pushing for the 50 attempts remaining (48 last week! ). The firrst week missed Holy Wraths caused 4 wipes. I decided I couldn't let that happen again.


Otherwise, hit is only useful if you're missing taunts.

[Miedo]

I has a reason! Holy Wrathing Shadow Strike on 10 man, as the offtank I'm assigned to just deal with it alone. That, and that alone, is why I have hit. Since I tank our "B Team" runs, we're still pushing for the 50 attempts remaining (48 last week! ). The firrst week missed Holy Wraths caused 4 wipes. I decided I couldn't let that happen again.


Otherwise, hit is only useful if you're missing taunts.

Imo, if it's causing that many wipes, assign a back up - or get an enhancement/DK/rogue to do it. Focus macros are win.

[Needonboots]

Imo, if it's causing that many wipes, assign a back up - or get an enhancement/DK/rogue to do it. Focus macros are win.

We do on 25 man. But on 10 man it's not really needed, I threw in a few hit gems, nothing massive, but I haven't missed it since. It's farm content, and since I don't die on stuff unless it's already a wipe, and I put out enough threat, I'm comfortable with the hit gems to keep the encounter simple.

[bawkbawkboom]

I'm fully aware it's not a defence cap, if you had taken the time to look at previous threads I have been posting in. Infact, one was a thread on the simple fact the it's not a cap. With me trying to get it into people's heads that its not a cap.

I was saying it as 'def cap/over capped' as it's the most commonly used terminology to describe the minimum def needed for raiding. I was playing my words to the majority, not the minority of us who know what we are talking about =).

BTW, about Gems, I believe it is best to put stam/agi in the slots, not Stam/Def or Just Stam.

Stam/Def might help as it can give you more Dodge/block/parry, but I believe Agi is more handy (cannot prove it though, not in the place to look at it).

Added: Depends what your play style is. Or what boss your tanking. But yes, you are correct. Each one gives a different array of stat increases, so it is all dependens on your playstyle imo.

Bawk

[Nillo]

I'm fully aware it's not a defence cap, if you had taken the time to look at previous threads I have been posting in. Infact, one was a thread on the simple fact the it's not a cap. With me trying to get it into people's heads that its not a cap.

Just let me quote you again:

Blue = 30 stam
Red = 10agi/stam (some also go for 10dodge/15stam) but.....
Yellow = 10def/15stam but if you're capped/over capped def, then 30 stam doesnt hurt. Unless your stam is uber already, then don't worry about it too much.

That post is clearly one of those "Def is a Cap" statements to me. Why? It looks like you're trying to say, that Agility or Dodge is OK, but def is not (if "overcapped", while Def is by far the superior stat.
Meh whatever this is already too far off-topic.


BTT: I really like being hit capped as a tank, because there are situations, where you need snap aggro or situations, where a taunt miss would be critical and the chance of wiping the raid because of slightly less avoidance is almost nonexistant.

[Offhand]

Strength is something we tend to get on our gear regardless of gear choice (besides trinkets, rings, enchants and gems I guess). Hit on the other hand often comes at the expense of dodge, parry or expertise (T9 legs comes to mind).

So does this choice simply become a question of more avoidance vs more threat?
And in that case, could expertise (until hard cap) be considered a better hybrid stat?

Theck had done some silly theorycrafting on the value of expertise being 80% that of dodge. Still a weak threat stat, and only useful on fights where tank damage isn't a concern (because if tank damage is a concern, bosses don't parry-haste). Expertise is really only a useful stat on easy tank encounters, and that's nothing to gear towards.

Strength is on practically all tank gear, although it is subject to being allocated to other stats. If you compare these two identical tanking chests, you can see that strength was indeed traded for avoidance by whoever itemized the pieces. I'm of the opinion that there is some baseline amount of strength that you will find on all gear of the same itemlevel but some stat allocation can be given to strength. This isn't the case with stamina, as if one item had drastically more stam then a piece of gear of the same itemlevel, it would undoubtedly be BiS. Although the exception to the rule is that heroic 10 man gear is drastically better itemized then ToC 25 normal gear of the same level (examples here and here). But you can see in both examples, strength is traded for eh/avoidance stats again.

Just let me quote you again:
That post is clearly one of those "Def is a Cap" statements to me. Why? It looks like you're trying to say, that Agility or Dodge is OK, but def is not (if "overcapped", while Def is by far the superior stat.
Meh whatever this is already too far off-topic.

Defense to 540 is a cap. It's a soft cap, but a cap to be sure, but defense isn't necessary past 540 (hence why it was suggested you don't need to gem stam/def in yellow sockets).

BTT: I really like being hit capped as a tank, because there are situations, where you need snap aggro or situations, where a taunt miss would be critical and the chance of wiping the raid because of slightly less avoidance is almost nonexistant.

Once again, emotional theorycrafting, there's only one phase of one fight where taunts are important in all of T9. That's not something you need to gear around, especially gearing for the cap in ToC gear (of which there is only 2-3 pieces of hit gear), you would need to sacrifice a ton of stamina and avoidance to meet that.

[bawkbawkboom]

Nillo, beleive what you want to believe about my knowledge on the matter. I know I know what I'm talking about, so lets stop the trolling in which you so unnesseccerily started.

Bawk

[piffer]

lol i almost responded seriously to this tread, found my sanity, in the nick of time!

[xdwbx]

Listen to what Offhand said, it is all correct.

I try to maintain my defense as close to 540 as possible without dipping under it. I try to use the rest of my stat allocation for more important things like stamina.

On that note, I never...never gear, gem, or enchant for hit and it makes me sad to see others do otherwise. In a situation where I am forced to use a green gem, I always go for 10 def 15 stamina.

And no, I'm not playing with fail dps or just running heroics. I very rarely have threat issues and when I do, it is because of some gimmick on the fight and one hand of salvation easily reels in the outliers.