My Feral Bear!

[Gulpener]

how much did your account cost?

Are you saying this to me?
I feel very offended. I have this character since 7 february 2007. I always was kitty dps. But since a year (WOTLK) im a tank.
So as I earlier stated. Naxx and ulduar werent a problem for me.(sartharion and malygos neither) But the balance is changed. Dps is doing more TPS with their new gear. And our tps output isnt good scaled with the DPS.

[cheesypeas]

As has been mentioned, change spec first and foremost.

Drop Natural / Master Shapeshifter

Get improved MotW!!!!!

Get Beserk!!!!!!

Get Infected Wounds

Don't get shredding attacks

Drop Brutal impact

Finish off Improved Leader of the Pack

Health is fine for ToC 25, drop the +hit gem. Perhaps get another +stam trinket (ToC 5 normal or Ignis 25) and replace some of the +stam gems with Agility + stam

[hawtlol]

well your glyphs are awful and your spec is terrible as well. i dont see how you could have played a druid since '07 and still not know the class mechanics.TPS should not be a problem with a bear, paladin, or DK. if you start off with mangle and spam maul the whole fight while keeping up 5 lacerates there should be not problem in holding threat. i mean your gemming for hit rating at 412 hit. you dont have a proper tanking weapon enchant. just makes me think you've bought your account

[boomr]

Allright...to set a few things straight.

1. Hit cap for taunt is 261, and if i'm wrong i'm the luckiest tank in the WORLD
2. YOU HAVE WAY TO MUCH HIT.....after 261 its a useless stat, drop as much as you can asap
3. the OP's enchants are a little wonky, stick to as much agi/armor if possible, then follow with stam enchants, btw i really like blood draining, saved me on anub 25 hard several times during phase 3
4. DONT TAKE RINGS FROM DKs/PALADINs/WARRIORs.....i see that parry 245 ring, and pray that whoever else tanks in ur guild isn't crying over it
-i know i am using a parry ring just out of necessity, i dont get alot of the drops i want and needed the stam push
5. druid threat is WAY awesome atm...i usually hang around 8k-9k, push 11k when i zerk
-its all in your use of FFF, mangle and enrage, btw, on ur spec, you need king of the jungle and zerk...MUST HAVES for threat
could use infected wounds too, just incase ur warrior tanks dont have imp TC and your DKs aren't frost
6. get it into your head that no matter what your gonna be a soak tank. This is what we are, no matter what amount of agi you put in, not matter how much armor you have....you will always take more dmg than a warrior or a tankadin. Its just the mechanics of our class

7. And finally, above all, don't let anyone crap on your parade, i know i stated alot of the "rules" we feral's live by now but still...have to enjoy it
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Storms&n=Boomr
here is my armory to compare, my build is cookie cutter for most druids on or clearing anub 25 hard(the 0/60/11 one) and forgive my shoulders missing their enchant, i haven't PVP'd in a while and am short the 10k for the shoulders enchant

P.S. you really need the expertise everyone is saying to get, the more the better, lowers the chance of the boss to parry/dodge you, and even avoids more dmg by not resetting the mobs swing timer when he parrys, dodge cap is around 37(not totally sure) parry is 55 and change

[Trifande]

Allright...to set a few things straight.

Alright, let's read up properly before giving advice...

1. Hit cap for taunt is 261, and if i'm wrong i'm the luckiest tank in the WORLD

Hit cap is 263 (262.xx but you always round up in WoW)

2. YOU HAVE WAY TO MUCH HIT.....after 261 its a useless stat, drop as much as you can asap

After 263, hit looses its usefulness compared to other stats but always helps taunt (until spell hit cap) so its NOT useless, just bad to gem/enchant for it post-263 compared to the alternatives.

3. the OP's enchants are a little wonky, stick to as much agi/armor if possible, then follow with stam enchants, btw i really like blood draining, saved me on anub 25 hard several times during phase 3

Agree.

4. DONT TAKE RINGS FROM DKs/PALADINs/WARRIORs.....i see that parry 245 ring, and pray that whoever else tanks in ur guild isn't crying over it
-i know i am using a parry ring just out of necessity, i dont get alot of the drops i want and needed the stam push

Agree, but as you yourself said, we 2nd rate tanks don't always have tanking jewelry itemized well for us and if we are unlucky on drops parry becomes a necessary waste.

5. druid threat is WAY awesome atm...i usually hang around 8k-9k, push 11k when i zerk
-its all in your use of FFF, mangle and enrage, btw, on ur spec, you need king of the jungle and zerk...MUST HAVES for threat
could use infected wounds too, just incase ur warrior tanks dont have imp TC and your DKs aren't frost

Agree.

6. get it into your head that no matter what your gonna be a soak tank. This is what we are, no matter what amount of agi you put in, not matter how much armor you have....you will always take more dmg than a warrior or a tankadin. Its just the mechanics of our class

Yep I agree, though with abundance of gear sets, bears can get an AP (str?) & crit (agi) set that boosts Savage Defense to sweet levels, and including our higher armor mitigation (barely) keeps us at a competitive (yet lower) lever to warrs.

7. And finally, above all, don't let anyone crap on your parade, i know i stated alot of the "rules" we feral's live by now but still...have to enjoy it
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Storms&n=Boomr
here is my armory to compare, my build is cookie cutter for most druids on or clearing anub 25 hard(the 0/60/11 one) and forgive my shoulders missing their enchant, i haven't PVP'd in a while and am short the 10k for the shoulders enchant

me likey

P.S. you really need the expertise everyone is saying to get, the more the better, lowers the chance of the boss to parry/dodge you, and even avoids more dmg by not resetting the mobs swing timer when he parrys, dodge cap is around 37(not totally sure) parry is 55 and change

dodge soft cap is 26 (214 rating), parry (i.e. hard cap) is 56 (460 rating). tho as a bear you should be having free 10 expertise from talents (Primal Precision).

Cheers.

[Gulpener]

well your glyphs are awful and your spec is terrible as well. i dont see how you could have played a druid since '07 and still not know the class mechanics.TPS should not be a problem with a bear, paladin, or DK. if you start off with mangle and spam maul the whole fight while keeping up 5 lacerates there should be not problem in holding threat. i mean your gemming for hit rating at 412 hit. you dont have a proper tanking weapon enchant. just makes me think you've bought your account

Im really bad in theorycrafting. The reason why my spec is messed up is cause al the changes i made to try something else. Testing if your treath is enough is difficult cause every encounter is different.

Yes im gonna lower my hit!
Yes im gonna Increase expertise! Does anybody knows how much expertise is advisable?
Yes i know where soak tanks.
No i dont take rings who are made for other classes. But there is a lack of real tankdruid jewelry.

Yes i will respec! I will look at the builds and advice posted here and look whats best.

It wont be today, cause i dont have the time now. I will let you all know when i made the changes(prolly somwhere in the weekend)

Thank you.

[Trifande]

Im really bad in theorycrafting. The reason why my spec is messed up is cause al the changes i made to try something else. Testing if your treath is enough is difficult cause every encounter is different.

Yes im gonna lower my hit!
Yes im gonna Increase expertise! Does anybody knows how much expertise is advisable?
Yes i know where soak tanks.
No i dont take rings who are made for other classes. But there is a lack of real tankdruid jewelry.

Yes i will respec! I will look at the builds and advice posted here and look whats best.

It wont be today, cause i dont have the time now. I will let you all know when i made the changes(prolly somwhere in the weekend)

Thank you.

As i mentioned a couple of times in this thread already :P, aim for 26 expertise MINIMUM. After that's solved try to get as close to the hard cap (56) as you can without sacrificing too much stam/dodge. You should also always aim to have 263+ hit rating. Never worry about crit/AP levels as they should come naturally regardless of your gear choices. Maximizing Hit, Expertise, Stam and Dodge (as well as armor) should be on a much higher priority than AP/crit. After all, your job is to keep threat and mitigate as much dmg as possible which the afore mentioned stats do much better. Mind you, AP/crit can be great for multiple / softer-hitting adds and even heroics.

[LockItUp]

Treath?

Anyone? LoL ;D

[bavarcarus]

Don't rule out the agi/stm dps rings for tanking, there's nothing wrong with http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/47730/d...ghtstone-ring/ for a bear. There's plenty others that are good that I don't feel like going to find.

[Trifande]

Don't rule out the agi/stm dps rings for tanking, there's nothing wrong with http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/47730/d...ghtstone-ring/ for a bear. There's plenty others that are good that I don't feel like going to find.

i would only wear that in a heroic or content I out-gear... The stam drop with using that over a 'tanking' ring is ghastly... :P

[getefix]

1. Hit cap for taunt is 261, and if i'm wrong i'm the luckiest tank in the WORLD
2. YOU HAVE WAY TO MUCH HIT.....after 261 its a useless stat, drop as much as you can asap
P.S. you really need the expertise everyone is saying to get, the more the better, lowers the chance of the boss to parry/dodge you, and even avoids more dmg by not resetting the mobs swing timer when he parrys, dodge cap is around 37(not totally sure) parry is 55 and change

It's nice to have correct numbers, and you don't have them.

Hit cap is 263 (roughly) for melee swings. Hit cap for taunt is 17%. Don't believe me? Wowwiki agrees.
Dodge expertise cap is 26. Parry expertise cap is something like 14%. It doesn't really matter because you'll never get there (at least you shouldn't ever get there). Maintain a minimum of 26 expertise and anything after that is nice, but it won't hurt you if you don't have it.

[raxin]

5. druid threat is WAY awesome atm...i usually hang around 8k-9k, push 11k when i zerk
-its all in your use of FFF, mangle and enrage, btw, on ur spec, you need king of the jungle and zerk...MUST HAVES for threat
could use infected wounds too, just incase ur warrior tanks dont have imp TC and your DKs aren't frost

I just pray you don't use enrage in your normal threat rotation, would pretty much defeat the purpose of being a tank.... ; i could see the excuse using it once on the pull while there is minimal stress on the healers but you still opening yourself up for gib...

In the 25man heroic world this would be the most idiotic thing you could do, and King of the jungle is pretty much worthless in these situations

[raxin]

6. get it into your head that no matter what your gonna be a soak tank. This is what we are, no matter what amount of agi you put in, not matter how much armor you have....you will always take more dmg than a warrior or a tankadin. Its just the mechanics of our class

wow couldn't disagree more....obviously there are fights out there where other classes shine but there are situations where armor is king and where stam is king. If you want some truth to this situation check out some of the logs....
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3...?s=5364&e=5845
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6140&e=6663

SOOO strange the unbelievable stronger paladin tank took almost twice as much damage as i did how is this possible!? i stacked mit and avoidance with some resis. WE ARE the only tank that can do this so please stop with STAM IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO BS.

[raxin]

7. And finally, above all, don't let anyone crap on your parade, i know i stated alot of the "rules" we feral's live by now but still...have to enjoy it
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Storms&n=Boomr
here is my armory to compare, my build is cookie cutter for most druids on or clearing anub 25 hard(the 0/60/11 one)

Sorry for rippin on you guy but found one other fatal no no....your spec has 1 huge flaw... completely pointless to have 2/3 improved mangle, KotJ is pretty much worthless until you get your 4pc T10 which nobody has yet obviously.

It's best to either max out improved mangle or put no points in it at all, you will probably notice a threat increase if you just scrap the mangle and KotJ and pick up master SS in the resto tree.

[bavarcarus]

i would only wear that in a heroic or content I out-gear... The stam drop with using that over a 'tanking' ring is ghastly... :P

I get the feeling you're way too focused on stm stacking...

[Gulpener]

How is it possible to decide what i need. When everybody is saying something different. Then I still dont know what is best.

[Fbl]

you gear is not that good
your build is bad
your glyphs are bad
your enchants could be better
please for the love of god read any feral tanking guide

[Daez]

Hit cap is 263 (roughly) for melee swings. Hit cap for taunt is 17%. Don't believe me?

Actually, taunt works off of spell hit, which is 17% (446) before all other buffs/debuffs. After misery/improved faerie fire it becomes 14% (368).

Maintain a minimum of 26 expertise and anything after that is nice, but it won't hurt you if you don't have it.

At 30 expertise you are getting 1 parry every minute. Anything above that pushes it back even farther. However, you start to sacrifice other stats in place of expertise once you hit around 30. 30 expertise is fine for a tank and druids get 10 free expertise through talents. The key is hitting 30 expertise then going stam>agil>dodge.

[Daez]

I get the feeling you're way too focused on stm stacking...

It seems like Blizzard is trying to scream out to druids that agility/stamina is the best way to go. Pretty much every item actually itemized for a druid in ICC has equal amounts of stamina and agility. If you hit enough stamina to take two large hits in a row then you should be going after agility. Unless yours healers really really suck you should NEVER have to eat more than two really large hits in a row.

[Gulpener]

you gear is not that good
your build is bad
your glyphs are bad
your enchants could be better
please for the love of god read any feral tanking guide

I read a couple of feral guides. But they are all saying other things. There are a lot of different opninions.
This way got my spec so much fucked up.

It seems like Blizzard is trying to scream out to druids that agility/stamina is the best way to go. Pretty much every item actually itemized for a druid in ICC has equal amounts of stamina and agility. If you hit enough stamina to take two large hits in a row then you should be going after agility. Unless yours healers really really suck you should NEVER have to eat more than two really large hits in a row.

And yes i was stacking stamina cause my dodge is enough.