patch 3.3

[demise157]

Was curious if anyone knows what spec is looking like the way to go come patch 3.3? Is Arcane still going to be on top of TTW/Fireball?

[Polarthief]

Was curious if anyone knows what spec is looking like the way to go come patch 3.3? Is Arcane still going to be on top of TTW/Fireball?

No major changes to fire *mana cost for AOE omgs so damageworthy*, also Burning Determination got double duration *bout time it isn't USELESS!*

Decently nice change to Arcane Empowerment. If you don't have a BM hunter *which you SHOULDN'T in your hardcore raids!* or a Retadin isn't using Ret Aura, you now give the raid the +3% ALL sources of damage buff.

So Arcane gets a teensy tiny buff, but it's a raid-wide buff that already existed, so arcane will still be the SotP *Specc of the Patch*

[Milamber]

Was curious if anyone knows what spec is looking like the way to go come patch 3.3? Is Arcane still going to be on top of TTW/Fireball?

Simcraft (http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...ampleOutputPTR) is the most informative thing I have found about that...

[afkalmighty]

Simcraft (http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...ampleOutputPTR) is the most informative thing I have found about that...

interesting... I wonder when one of these in T10gear is comming out

[Milamber]

interesting... I wonder when one of these in T10gear is comming out

As soon as somebody gets off his/her lazy ass :-)

[Rogge]

or a Retadin isn't using Ret Aura, you now give the raid the +3% ALL sources of damage buff.

..and all damage caused by friendly targets affected by any of your auras is increased by 3%.

[Swizzle]

interesting... I wonder when one of these in T10gear is comming out

i'd have to lean towards fire when approaching full BiS. i don't know...it just feels like it's a place where fire would do better, the same way frost did better in MC/BWL/Ony.

[DirewolfX]

i'd have to lean towards fire when approaching full BiS. i don't know...it just feels like it's a place where fire would do better, the same way frost did better in MC/BWL/Ony.

Because we're expecting ICC mobs to be Arcane-immune? The only reason Frost did better in MC/BWL/Ony is because half of the mobs were immune or highly resistant to fire. Onyxia, Baron Geddon, Ragnaros, Vaelastrasz, Flamegor, Ebonroc, Firemaw, and Nefarian were definitely immune. Everything else in BWL was at least resistant (except Chromaggus, of course) as were most enemies in Molten Core.

Fire might beat Arcane because it still scales better. The question is whether we'll see that scaling with the gear levels in ICC. I plugged a few ICC pieces into my Rawr to test it out, but I only did 264 ones (and obviously not the full selection of gear to optimize with). Obviously it wasn't the most optimized set, but Arcane still edged out fire by about 400 dps. In 277 gear, I can easily see Fire closing the gap, but I can just as easily see it falling a bit short.

[Swizzle]

Because we're expecting ICC mobs to be Arcane-immune? The only reason Frost did better in MC/BWL/Ony is because half of the mobs were immune or highly resistant to fire. Onyxia, Baron Geddon, Ragnaros, Vaelastrasz, Flamegor, Ebonroc, Firemaw, and Nefarian were definitely immune. Everything else in BWL was at least resistant (except Chromaggus, of course) as were most enemies in Molten Core.

Fire might beat Arcane because it still scales better. The question is whether we'll see that scaling with the gear levels in ICC. I plugged a few ICC pieces into my Rawr to test it out, but I only did 264 ones (and obviously not the full selection of gear to optimize with). Obviously it wasn't the most optimized set, but Arcane still edged out fire by about 400 dps. In 277 gear, I can easily see Fire closing the gap, but I can just as easily see it falling a bit short.

the last part was a joke, obviously. gotta love the internets.

with the stats on the gear i've seen or cared to find, interesting set bonuses, and some fight mechanics, i honestly think fire would pull out ahead. not right away of course, but still.

[DirewolfX]

Okay, I was worried there for a sec. =p

Yeah, I don't think set bonuses are modeled in Rawr yet, so we have yet to see how that would affect fire DPS. I expect the MI change to be a wash, but depending on how high crit scales, the haste bonus could end up with close to 100% up time on fire specs, while I think it would cap out at 50% for Arcane.

[Swizzle]

Okay, I was worried there for a sec. =p

Yeah, I don't think set bonuses are modeled in Rawr yet, so we have yet to see how that would affect fire DPS. I expect the MI change to be a wash, but depending on how high crit scales, the haste bonus could end up with close to 100% up time on fire specs, while I think it would cap out at 50% for Arcane.

exactly. no matter how much crit you get or how much haste you get, the 2 piece bonus basically provides a maximum of 50% uptime on the proc, whereas fire can feasibly push it to a near 100%. which brings up my arcane scaling concern. hot streak is a talent that is directly influenced by your gear, stats, buffs, and target debuffs while missile barrage is just a static 40% chance. i can say this though, with just replacing 4 pieces of t9 for 4 equitable pieces of 264 t10 (i was comparing legs, helm, shoulders, and gloves since that's what any self respecting mage is using now anyways) i gained a total of 1.4% crit (it was higher originally, but then i forgot to factor out the loss of 2 piece t9, which brought it down to the 1.4%). assuming higher stat values on the 277 tier, comparably speaking to the jump from 245 to 258, to the 264 i can wager at a flat minimum of 3% crit increase with only 4 pieces.

anyway, almost every fight i bothered to watch on the PTR streams had some sort of situational AoE requirements like saurfang slimes, marrowgar spikes, dreamwalker adds, and deathwhisper adds being the ones that come to mind mostly (no idea about how much AoE is needed for gunship, princes, lanathel, sindragosa, all of plague wing, or arthas himself). if a majority of the fights play out as a firefighter type scneario, i'd have to say TtW/fire would be the top spec again.

oh yeah, it also scales better, but don't tell anyone.

[DirewolfX]

Judging from write-ups and videos I've watched, I'd say there's still plenty of room for single target DPS:

Marrowgar - Bone spikes are only 3 at a time and should probably be single targeted because they will be spread out. (Basically, like Iron Roots on that one Freya elder)

Lady Deathwhisper - I read they're using ranged to single target her and melee to focus the adds. Sounded like she did things that made you want to kill a certain add fast (i.e. single > AoE). Not sure about this one, though.

Gunship - AoE the enemy boarding party.

Deathbringer - Looked like adds had AoE reduction like Faction Champs, but this could be on heroic only.

Plagueworks stuff - Looked like not enough up at once to aoe, mechanics seem to favor single targeting them down anyway.

Blood mage wing - Didn't see any adds.

Valithria Dreamwalker - Depends on how fast adds spawn, but the videos seemed pretty slow, so you could single target them down as they spawn. Seems more like Razorgore where you'd have groups of Tank/DPS which handle their own section.

Sindragosa - Doesn't look like there are adds, but there seems to be a bit where you need to free your stacked up buddies from ice, and AoE might be helpful. Been a while since I watched this video, so I'm not sure.

Lich King - Pro guilds attempting heroic mode will probably want to group up his Kael'thas, Anub'arak, Kel'thuzad and Jim Raynor adds and AoE them to beat the enrage timer, but on normal mode, you can just let Patchwerk and A'dal tank them for you.

[Herecius]

Lich King - Pro guilds attempting heroic mode will probably want to group up his Kael'thas, Anub'arak, Kel'thuzad and Jim Raynor adds and AoE them to beat the enrage timer, but on normal mode, you can just let Patchwerk and A'dal tank them for you.

Pure win.
But you forgot the part where Gamon abruptly turns (even more) hostile than ever before, showing that he's been growing a clone army of undead Gamons for years from all of the corpses he's left in Orgrimmar, and the is in fact the source of the Lich King's most powerful Army of the Dead spell. The Army of Gamon will need to be AoE'd down.

[Swizzle]

Deathbringer - Looked like adds had AoE reduction like Faction Champs, but this could be on heroic only.

maybe, but living bomb ticks aren't counted towards AoE damage and they aren't affected by TtW so there is less ramp up needed than say arcane (which probably won't find any TtW on the adds).

all speculation though, haven't had the time or motivation to go test things personally on PTR.

[Skarrd]

Arcane is just barely ahead of fire in current gear. The dps difference is magnified by the fight mechanics that favor cooldowns, and fire has none so it sits further behind than it should. I think the gap will easily be closed by the scaling differences, however, I also think any hardmode raider will be running both specs throughout all of ICC. I haven't payed much attention to the fights aside from watching maybe 5 of them once or twice so I'm hardly an expert at their mechanics. Any fights with a significant burn phase / buff Arcane will be better, any fight with multiple adds that don't come one at a time ttw/fire will likely pull ahead.

We'll have plenty of time to mess with this while we farm the easymode bosses waiting for wings to open, anyway, so no need to over-analyze for patch day.

[Polarthief]

Lich King - Pro guilds attempting heroic mode will probably want to group up his Kael'thas, Anub'arak, Kel'thuzad and Jim Raynor adds and AoE them to beat the enrage timer, but on normal mode, you can just let Patchwerk and A'dal tank them for you.

I enjoyed the SC reference :3

[Loklar]

I think once mages get their 4 piece tier 10 they'll go fire and never look back.

With tier 10 gear and raidbuffs, you'll be able to keep that 12% buff up all the time. And that same buff actually hurts Arcane. The 12% haste only comes after Missile Barrage is consumed, Arcane mages will be stuck ramping up to a 4 stack while fire mages will instant pyro for the buff right away.

4 piece tier 10 is the death of Arcane.

[Swizzle]

why 4 piece? ???

4 piece is 18% more damage when images are out, 2 piece is the haste buff.

[Loklar]

Oh shi~

I guess I miss remembered. That's even better. I liek fire >

[Skarrd]

The 12% haste only comes after Missile Barrage is consumed, Arcane mages will be stuck ramping up to a 4 stack while fire mages will instant pyro for the buff right away.

Actually, in terms of overall dps, it doesn't matter which stack is hasted. You either get to your bigger stacks faster, or you cast those stacks faster. It would only make a difference if you were going beyond the fourth cast of AB.