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  1. #1

    *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    Updated as of 15/10-2010, patch 4.0.1.

    *** THIS INFORMATION IS OUTDATED AS OF 4.0.1!! ***



    Armorpen for dummies


    Getting tired of all the ArP threads? So am I, therefore I will write this short ArP guide.
    Lets get started then shall we?

    The optimal amount of ArP to reach is 100%, during proc or passive.

    13.99 Armor penetration rating equals to 1%

    Mace (15%): 209.85 rating
    Battle Stance (10%): 139.90 rating
    T9 Two piece bonus (6%): 83.94 rating.

    Take into account that the ArP you recive from macespec, Battlestance and t9 2p does NOT show up in your character info

    ***How much ArP should I get if I have a Grim toll?***

    787.6 Armor penetration rating will bring you to 100% during proc.

    ***How much ArP should I get if I have molnir' runestone?***

    734.6 Armor penetration rating will bring you to 100% during proc.

    ***How much ArP should I get if I have Needle-Encrusted Scorpion?***

    721 Armor penetration rating will bring you to 100% during proc.

    ***How much ArP should I get if I have Deathbringer's will?***

    This trinket was changed as of 6/1 or 7/1 to not proc STR, CRIT and ARP but now STR, CRIT and HASTE!
    This was a major buff for fury(assuming you are gearing for hard-cap arp), and a minor for arms(since haste isn't as good for them)

    The best way to go with this trinket is arp-harcap, or as far as you can go.

    When you reach these "soft-caps" stacking STR will generally be the best choice.

    ***If I got 30% arp, and a tank apply sunders. Does that mean I got 50% arp?***

    NO! Armourdebuffs like Sunder armor, expose armor and faerie fire are calculated before your armor penetration rating is calculated.

    Boss X has 10 000 armour, a prot warrior applies Sunder armour(20%) which brings X's armour to 8 000.
    (now it's time for your debuffs)
    You have 45% armor penetration, which reduces 8000 armour to 4400.
    Final boss armour is 4400.

    There you go! That wasn't hard.


    ***HEELP STR OR ARP?!?!***

    That depends on your gearlevel, do you have a Grim toll, Molnir runestone or Needle-Encrusted Scorpion? If you do, it would be your best interest to gem for arp until you reach the soft cap(read above).

    No Molnir runestone, grim toll or Needle-Encrusted Scorpion? Can you reach more then ~75% passive arp(*This is a rough estimate and depends a lot on your current gear! Consult your spreadsheet to be certain*) without dropping your hit and expertise far below caps? If you can, then you should.

    Dont have a either GT, MJ or NES(Lulz, funny abbreviation) and can't get that high passive ArP? Stack strength.

    OBS: These are rough way lines, for the most precise answer, head over to Elitist jerks -> warrior forum -> Landsoul's spreadsheet.

    ***Is it possible to reach the arp hardcap(1400 rating)***

    Yes it is, it was possible before ICC came out, and is now a lil' bit easier to reach.
    Crom-EU have put together two wowhead profiles with(HC-gear), or close to(non HC-gear), hardcap reached.

    Non-hc ICC gear: http://www.wowhead.com/?profile=19983581
    Some HC ICC gear: http://www.wowhead.com/?profile=19984585

    And a profile from milenariogk, this one is based on only icc10 normal(first two wings) and toc25 normal!
    http://www.wowhead.com/?profile=20688555
    Thanks to Crom and Milenariogk for putting these profiles together.

    *** Is sunder amour useless when you have 100% arp? ***

    TLDR; No.

    Sunder does benefit you even if you have 100% Armor pen, like earlier said. ArP will never get your target to 0 armor.

    If you look at the wowwiki link you will find a graph(not exactly a graph perhaps but I can't remember the correct term)you will see that if the level 83 target has 10k armor, then 99.9... arp will reduce it to ~1100, but if the target has 8k armor(Like it would after sunders) the target will have a minimum of 6 armor.

    And like you probably know armor doesn't scale linear, at 100 armor, a 10 armor increase is worth a lot more then 10 armor at 25k.

    Illustrated here: http://www.wowwiki.com/File:Armor.JPG

    So those sunders do make a huge difference even if you are at 100% ArP

    And as a sidenote; 100% armor penetration does not equal to zero armor on target. There's a reason why it says “Armor penetration reduces your opponents armor by up to **.**%”

    More detailed answer regarding that topic:
    http://www.wowwiki.com/Armor_penetration
    Last edited by quez; 2010-10-15 at 01:40 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    So since I have the runestone it is best for me to gem for arp? that cool ty for the info.

  3. #3

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorx007
    So since I have the runestone it is best for me to gem for arp? that cool ty for the info.
    As long as you can get more then ~30-40% arp you should benifit the most by gemming arp.

  4. #4

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&n=Kitsuneonna

    I roughly have 35% arp atm with gem for it really.

  5. #5

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    Could be me, but what's the soft ArP cap? :S
    I see 100%, I doubt that's the soft cap?

  6. #6

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorx007
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&n=Kitsuneonna

    I roughly have 35% arp atm with gem for it really.
    If you were to change all your gems to arp you should get rather close to the soft cap, and I noticed that you only had one JConly-gem, you can have a total of 3 in your gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emy
    Could be me, but what's the soft ArP cap? :S
    I see 100%, I doubt that's the soft cap?
    The arp soft cap is the amount of arp you need to have to achive 100% arp during a GT/MJ proc.

    So if you have a GT your softcap is 788 arp, if you have a MJ your softcap is 735

  7. #7

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    Quote Originally Posted by quez


    So if you have a GT your softcap is 787 arp, if you have a MJ your softcap is 734
    788 and 735 respectively.

  8. #8

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    Quote Originally Posted by quez
    fiery fire
    i bet it's hot

  9. #9

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    Quote Originally Posted by lizardlol
    i bet it's hot
    Whops!

  10. #10

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    Thanks, this responds many questions. Is ArP still being dropped for Cataclysm?

  11. #11

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Luris
    Thanks, this responds many questions. Is ArP still being dropped for Cataclysm?
    From what I've read, yes. Armor penetration from gear is getting removed at the launch of Cataclysm.

  12. #12

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    Quote Originally Posted by quez
    From what I've read, yes. Armor penetration from gear is getting removed at the launch of Cataclysm.
    Fixxed

  13. #13

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    Arp is as said above, being removed from gear.
    The stat will still exist, but instead of an item saying '30 str, 30 stam, 100 ArP'

    It will now say '50 str, 30 stam'

    And that STR up there will give ArP.

    It's the same as Spellpower is being removed from items. In Cata, rather than it being given to you from SP stats on items, your INT will give spellpower. So 50 int will give you 100 spellpower, or w/e. Same way STR will give you ArP.


    So basically all your items in Cata will be STR and Stam.
    Volte 80 Frost DK--Cycloneduke 80 Holy Pally--Moardotz 80 Desto Warlock-- Dexterworgan 80 Assassination Rogue----Liadon 80 Feral Druid--Mumbles 70 Frost Mage--Bibleblack 70 Disc Priest--Dylli 70 DM Hunter--Krosa 70 Fury Warrior -- Slapntickle 70 Prot Warrior -- Okoi 80 Enha Shaman + 4 slave shamans multiboxed to 70 - Darksorrow EU PvP

  14. #14

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Duke
    Arp is as said above, being removed from gear.
    The stat will still exist, but instead of an item saying '30 str, 30 stam, 100 ArP'

    It will now say '50 str, 30 stam'

    And that STR up there will give ArP.

    It's the same as Spellpower is being removed from items. In Cata, rather than it being given to you from SP stats on items, your INT will give spellpower. So 50 int will give you 100 spellpower, or w/e. Same way STR will give you ArP.


    So basically all your items in Cata will be STR and Stam.
    No, Str will give you AP, not Arp. Arp as a stat in its current form will no longer exist, it remains to be seen whether it might appear in another form under either Arms/Fury's path of mastery's, I suspect, given how much Arms is dependant on it, that it will be in that tree. However, by the way it was talked about at Blizzcon, because fury dips into Arms, fury warriors will gain some benefit from this mastery, the same as Arms will gain some of Fury's mastery.

  15. #15

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    Nice ! Sticky needed

  16. #16

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    Just wondering, (or you may want to give ArP equiv ratings for) does your stats include the following.

    how much mace spec is worth (converted to rating)
    battle stance (for arm's)
    2 pc t9 (for arm's)

  17. #17

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    Landsouls has 13.99 rating per %, so:

    Mace (15%): 209.85 rating
    Battle Stance (10%): 139.90 rating
    T9 Two piece bonus (6%): 83.94 rating.

  18. #18

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    so if john has 3 apples and cathy takes 2 how many more apples until john can make cathy an apple pie?

  19. #19

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!


    firstly, tyvm for your efforts in trying to clarify this issue among us frustrated arms warriors... it is much appreciated.
    to summarize, your keypoints, give or take a couple of rating here and there (as per corrections and whatnot that followed)

    Quote Originally Posted by quez
    The optimal amount is to reach 100% Arp during proc,
    Grim Toll: requires you to have 787.6 personal armor penetration.
    Mjolnir Runestone: requires 734.6 Armor penetration rating will bring you to 100% during proc.

    No Molnir runestone or Grim Toll?
    Can you reach more then 85% passive arp without dropping your hit and expertise far below caps?

    If you can, then you should.
    If you can't,Stack strength.

    here's me on the armory...
    passively, on gear alone, i'm sitting on 718 rating, not including the gems.

    with gems, as currently have, i'm sitting on 946 rating... not including 2pc T9 bonus and Battle Stance...

    so according to your summary, i am gemming the wrong way? i should be gemming for STR?

    when i regemmed in the spreadsheet, it actually shows my DPS numbers going down... even tho only for <100 according...
    is it really going to make much difference in "real world" scenario?

    could my lack of expertise be affecting this spreadsheet?

    i'd like to clarify before i make any minor changes... oh, say, bout 1000g's worth of gems would be "minor"... lol

    thanks in advance!


  20. #20

    Re: *Guide* Armor penetration for dummies!

    Quote Originally Posted by kinghong1970
    firstly, tyvm for your efforts in trying to clarify this issue among us frustrated arms warriors... it is much appreciated.
    to summarize, your keypoints, give or take a couple of rating here and there (as per corrections and whatnot that followed)


    here's me on the armory...
    passively, on gear alone, i'm sitting on 718 rating, not including the gems.

    with gems, as currently have, i'm sitting on 946 rating... not including 2pc T9 bonus and Battle Stance...

    so according to your summary, i am gemming the wrong way? i should be gemming for STR?

    when i regemmed in the spreadsheet, it actually shows my DPS numbers going down... even tho only for <100 according...
    is it really going to make much difference in "real world" scenario?

    could my lack of expertise be affecting this spreadsheet?

    i'd like to clarify before i make any minor changes... oh, say, bout 1000g's worth of gems would be "minor"... lol

    thanks in advance!

    I'm sorry for the delayed reply, you might already have found the answer but I pluged in your character in Landsoul's spreadsheet and I saw that Arp is worth 1.13 SeP.

    So you are doing absolutely right, Arp benifits more for you then str does.
    So my rough estimates was just...that, rough :P I'll better clarify that so i don't confuse people more then necessary

    And thanks for the summarize you posted, I'll probably edit my original post.

    Oh, almost forgot.
    Regarding your expertise, I've read a lot of discussions regarding expertise for arms and it seems that it is not a bad thing to have low expertise, as long as you can convert a dodge into an overpower before Taste For Blood procs it will be a dps increase.

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