The 3.3 PvE Holy Paladin Guide.

[Zikron]

This is not countering my argument at all. If you can sustain HL spam with a lot of haste in your gear, then you are uber l33t and you dont have anything to learn from this guide OR the comments in this thread in the first place. If you have mana problems while still gemming for maximum intellect then you should drop some haste in favor of some crit or even mp5, THEN maybe you can sustain it.
What you're saying is: If you can afford to spam HL, then go for haste. The mistake in this logic is that as you increase your haste, you will lose your ability to sustain the HL spam.
What i'm saying is: If you can't afford to spam HL then drop some haste for some mp5. Can you now sustain HL spam? If yes, you've reached your goal, if not then keep dropping haste.

To be honest there's practically no reason to argue on the importance of spellpower either. It exists on all gear, unline haste and crit, and noone should gem for it, so there's no point in arguing whether it's better or worse than the rest of the stats. In the end of the day, your spellpower will depend on the ilvl of your gear.
I believe you will find more correct stuff than wrong in my guide, but still if something is wrong then something has to be done about it, which is why i have edited the original post for the 4th time to reflect some other opinions.

Well, advising someone to drop their second best stat and gimp their healing output is plain wrong. There is no mistake in his logic. The mistake is to drop haste for mp5, when you should be dropping crit for it or better yet getting some mp5 food. Other than that, it's adjusting some of your spamming with the help of /stopcasting macros and quartz, trying to save up mana by maintaining FoL HOT on the shielded target and caring enough to inform yourself on the encounter and toss some Flashes when you can get away with it. also, even though we reffer to ourselves as HL spammers, it doesn't mean we cast 100% of the time.Our high haste however enables us to "take a chill pill" for half a second or even a whole one (gasp) because we know we can respond fast enough.

I would advise green paladins to focus on haste/mp5 stuff and gem intellect, to go retri at first for those 20 talent points to complement their lack of gear. I would go so far as to say to use mixed Int + random stats gems for socket bonus on their first epics to squeeze some extra stats in order to reach a balanced set. But after the initial purples and when the dust starts to settle, making you consider attempting Hardmodes and stuff Intellect and Haste are what you need walking beside you. In abundance.

[Xs]

Totally agree that starterdins should still go Haste/Mp5 gear with Int gems

And really don't see the point in trying to make a mediocredin guide when most mediocre people would rather be awesome pro 1337 "I can sit on 2 all day" people

[apokteino]

Overall I like your guide the way it's been edited right now. Personally if I were you I would remove the section about FoL healing... but then again you did say this guide is for "newer" paladins. Realistically the only reason to try the FoL healing style is because your gear blows. Currently HL is the way to go if you are planning on doing any serious raiding.

Glyphs: HL, SoW, Divinity/LoH. The 3rd glyph is dependent on the fight. Right now any other glyphs are "wrong" if you are trying to raid.

Firecrest nailed the specs.

Stats: Int -> Haste -> Mp5/SP -> Crit. That's the order I'm prioritizing in right now.

As far as the haste soft-cap goes... it really doesn't mean anything to us because the cast time of HL (which is the healing spell we use right now) continues to be lowered by haste beyond the soft-cap. Ideally you should have haste on every piece of gear you have.

Other than that, enjoyed the post. ;D

[darthceltic]

it's retarded to make a guild to be average.

shouldn't guides be the "right" way to do things for hardest content.


firecast is 100% right and nothing to do with epeen, it's just about saying what is right not what is average or what u can get by with.

and with head and shoulder enchants. the mp5 chants now give more regen then crit, and the crit for throughput again isn't usefull really.

[Simca]

I really really really doubt FL will be viable in IC. FL does not scale nearly well enough to cover the increase in tank damage (and yes GC while the damage will be less spiky, it will be HIGHER - because its icecrown. Especially on heroic modes.), so that's pretty wishful thinking.

As for the rest of it, fairly good, but as said before, Aura Mastery is a huge help on a lot of fights and I expect it will continue to be after seeing the massive frost and shadow damage that goes on in nearly every ICC boss fight. Aura Mastery should be in the baseline build imo. Just because it doesn't inflate your healing numbers doesn't mean that it isn't a very useful tool that can help a lot on many current fights and (by the looks of it) many ICC fights.

[holii]

I haven't read the whole post, but you are missing something

enchant: you are missing the sp+mp5 one for head and shoulders.
for chest, you are missing 10mp5

[holii]

hmmm i'm currently HL build and been thinking of changing to FoL but wasn't sure if spending thousands of gold on gems to completely redo my gear was worth it, i'm currently at 33k mana unbuffed and 38k raid buffed, you said that you think FoL will be better in Icecrown and i'd love to try it out but i don't wanna redo it and hate it and waste all that money. keep in mind i'm a big FoL spammer anyway unless there's alot of aoe healing then i switch to HL.
armory below

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...eden&n=Dillbag

I have 2 sets of gear one for holy light build and one for flash of light build.
for holy light build i am looking for gear that has extra socket so togc10 gear is fine.
for flash light build i keep t9 4 sets.

most of the guild are now farming toc togc contents and it's not hard to get two sets of the gear since most of the gear are going to be a shard anyways.

[Macbrea]

A very nicely written guide with quite a bit of good information. Currently I am a HL paladin and thinking of building a FoL set if there is time and trophies available. There is one point I am going to disagree with at this point in time. I feel speccing into LoH is still an important part of a pve holy build. The reduction on the cooldown makes it so it is available for most boss fight (not in ToC but in Ulduar). ICC will be more like Ulduar so therefore a powerful heal like LoH is worth having. The main reason I feel it is worth speccing into is the damage reduction it provides to the target. 20% physical damage reduction is higher than any other similar tanking cooldowns provided by the other healers. Granted they have stated that the damage will be different but I am assuming the heroic (hardmode) encounters are once again going to require these tanking cooldowns. Now as the tanks gather the gear out of ICC and with less spike damage, it could be 2 points you could free up later.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...&n=Huntingbear
my armory above.

As alot of paladins im wondering if it's gonna be worth the gold to regem and re-enchant my gear for the max SP gemming and become a flash of light spammer. only problem i see is by 3.2.2 standars holy paladins are most used as tankhealers. and the highest raid flash of light heal ive had with my 2.8k sp (with raidbuffs) is only 11k (with trinkets and wings).

-Would a FoL spam build be good enough to be a tank healer or would you automaticly be put as raidheal aswell as tankheal?
-What build? i got 4 tier 9 items and i would benefit from the set bonus.
- Would the protection talent which increase the crit heals be worth it? additional the increased sacred shield would shield from your calculation 750 + (3500sp /2) =2500 shield every 6 seconds?

[Healsalot]

it's retarded to make a guild to be average.

shouldn't guides be the "right" way to do things for hardest content.


firecast is 100% right and nothing to do with epeen, it's just about saying what is right not what is average or what u can get by with.

and with head and shoulder enchants. the mp5 chants now give more regen then crit, and the crit for throughput again isn't usefull really.

Thats just lame dude...

Not all guilds start with ilvl 245 geared ppl, and as our dear friend Thoukaia said: This post is for ALL the paladins out there. Newbies aswell as the more experienced.

I think he is right in most of his statements, and this is a GUIDE, nothing more, nothing less. No one is twisting your arm. If only we had more ppl like him, who is actually trying to help out ppl, instead of the so called "1337"´s who actually spend their time here /bonk´ing ppl.

I do agree that Aura Mastery is indeed needed in every build.

As far as speccing LoH, i guess it really just depends on the setup in your group. I mean, if the tanks dont need the LoH cd to be used as a "dmg-reducer", theres no sense what so ever in blowing your "oh-shit" spell on it, is there?

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...&n=Huntingbear
my armory above.

As alot of paladins im wondering if it's gonna be worth the gold to regem and re-enchant my gear for the max SP gemming and become a flash of light spammer. only problem i see is by 3.2.2 standars holy paladins are most used as tankhealers. and the highest raid flash of light heal ive had with my 2.8k sp (with raidbuffs) is only 11k (with trinkets and wings).

-Would a FoL spam build be good enough to be a tank healer or would you automaticly be put as raidheal aswell as tankheal?

I really doubt that "FoL-spammers" will ever be used as tank healers, but who knows? As for now, its just not viable. But since this is a 3.3 guide, i will leave that question unanswered (from me at least ).

Again, thanks for the time you have put into this guide. Keep the updates coming

[darthceltic]

Thats just lame dude...

Not all guilds start with ilvl 245 geared ppl, and as our dear friend Thoukaia said: This post is for ALL the paladins out there. Newbies aswell as the more experienced.

I think he is right in most of his statements, and this is a GUIDE, nothing more, nothing less. No one is twisting your arm. If only we had more ppl like him, who is actually trying to help out ppl, instead of the so called "1337"´s who actually spend their time here /bonk´ing ppl.

I do agree that Aura Mastery is indeed needed in every build.

As far as speccing LoH, i guess it really just depends on the setup in your group. I mean, if the tanks dont need the LoH cd to be used as a "dmg-reducer", theres no sense what so ever in blowing your "oh-shit" spell on it, is there?

I really doubt that "FoL-spammers" will ever be used as tank healers, but who knows? As for now, its just not viable. But since this is a 3.3 guide, i will leave that question unanswered (from me at least ).

Again, thanks for the time you have put into this guide. Keep the updates coming

doing things the right way in ilvl 226 gear and doing it right in ilvl 245 gear is still the same.

NO way should u be worried about toc reg, 10 or 25 man if u were in 200 gear. u can get so much 226 from doing heorics no excuse to talk about less then 226.

[Firecrest]

Not all guilds start with ilvl 245 geared ppl, and as our dear friend Thoukaia said: This post is for ALL the paladins out there. Newbies aswell as the more experienced.

The problem is that this is simply not true. If I followed his guide, I would be doing a large disservice to my raid. So what does that say about it?

The simplicity is that he's written a guide that is wrong and is trying to pass it off as being for the "average Pally". The truth of the matter is that the average Pally can sustain a HL Build and therefore should be gemming, glyphing, speccing and prioritizing like I said - not as this guide suggests. This will be especially true in 3.3 when you will almost certainly be able to hit 30k+ mana just off of the new 5-man encounters.

Look, I appreciate his effort, but the bottom line is that he has never actually had to press himself by doing content that is actually challenging. He's done no hard modes of any kind in 25 man Ulduar or TotC. The way he heals is probably working for him just fine - but in the content he's doing, Spirit gear would work just fine too. He simply lacks the experience of participating in encounters where you had to do it "just right" and not "whatever works".

He could still be able to write a guide like this but it would require a large amount of input from the community and he would have to be willing to actually apply the changes that he is given. However, despite the fact that most people who have replied have told him that he is wrong, he still has not made changes to the fundamental errors in his work. If he wants to act as a human Wiki for the ideas of people more experienced than him, that would be fine. It would be great actually. A PvE healing guide is needed on these boards. However, his own opinions should be highly limited in the work.

[Deathflid]

FYI - if you can sustain 4.6k spell power 100% of the time, FoL spec is nearly as good as HL spec, if you can also sustain haste cap, if you can't do both of those things, then tell your raid to kick you out and take a raid healer than can raid heal or a tank healer that can tank heal, by being "mana efficient" and spamming FoL, what you are actually doing is burning the mana of the other healers in the raid with compensating for your pathetic output.

also, pretty much every caster class now specs for the same 70% knockback reduction you've always had, meaning speccing for imp conc is useless except for gimick encounters, has been since naxx .

PS - this is not bashing you, this guide is nice and gives a good rough guide for anybody starting out, there are just some things overlooked, such as oddities of spec and stat weights, is all

[thoukaia]

i'm going to add a Macro section to my guide so if anyone's using a helpful macro feel free to contribute

[Nillo]

i'm going to add a Macro section to my guide so if anyone's using a helpful macro feel free to contribute

#showtooltip Flash of Light
/cast [modifier:alt target=player][target=mouseover,exists,noharm][ ] Flash of Light

Replace Flash of Light , with the name of any helpful spell you can think of.


PS: Sacred Shield is 500+ 0.75*Spellpower and not 750+0.5*Spellpower.

[Xs]

#showtooltip Flash of Light
/cast [modifier:alt target=player][target=mouseover,exists,noharm][ ] Flash of Light

You don't need the showtooltip flash of light, it will automatically choose the flash of light since its the only spell in there (helps if people want to use it for other things and add things like /dismount or what ever)

One that I use for a lot of abilitys to minimize bar space

#showtooltip Greater Blessing of Wisdom
/cast [button:1] Blessing of Wisdom
/cast [button:2] Greater Blessing of Wisdom

allows you to left and right click it to save a lot of bar space for those clicky abilitys
also use it for turn undead and unholy wrath and other similar abilitys with long or no CDs to hide them from main view (since I use cooldown bars as well)

[Alenko]

a few things of note here

weapon enchant: +30 int (BC enchant) not 63sp. in my hl gear I have 2300 sp unbuffed, the 63 sp enchant on the weapon is completely useless once over 2k sp. for starting I wouldn't suggest it either (the +50 sp yes) due to mat cost.

also these stat prioritizations are off, they are all designed around mana regen, while at low gear lvls this can be something that needs focus on but crit is definately not the lowest priority stat, and you don't take it as a regen stat anyway (not anymore). if ALL your gear had haste/mp5/sp then your crit would (almost litterally) be 20% (basilcy base lvl 80 crit chance + 5% from conviction +5% from holy talents + 2% from int gems to be more exact). not taking crit is retarded and those who don't are just as dumb, you need crit in any holy build so that your heals, oh whats he word, oh yeah CRIT.

[Bada]

If I followed his guide, I would be doing a large disservice to my raid. So what does that say about it?

Because if you follow the guide you will

a) Go oom?
b) not perform healing-wise?
c) both a) and b) ?
d) none of the above ?

[Firecrest]

Because if you follow the guide you will

a) Go oom?
b) not perform healing-wise?
c) both a) and b) ?
d) none of the above ?

C.

If you want to know why, just go back and read my very first response in this thread for most of the things that are wrong.

There's still a few that I haven't even bothered to bring up yet. Like his idea that Plea should be used on CD or listing the wrong shoulder/helm enchant.

[Bada]

C.

If you want to know why, just go back and read my very first response in this thread for most of the things that are wrong.

There's still a few that I haven't even bothered to bring up yet. Like his idea that Plea should be used on CD or listing the wrong shoulder/helm enchant.

unbuffed, I have 34k mana, 45% crit, 721 haste and 116 mp5. Yet, I never oom, and I almost always top the healingmeters. would you mind explaining this to me?