What is the Lore Reason for no Undead Pallys?

[rantus]

How about Leonid Barthalomew the Revered?

I thought he was a warrior?
And even if hes a paladin the light may stay with him as he is not for the evil cause of the forsaken.

[c4tuna]

hes actually a dk using holy spells

That's like saying that a red apple isn't red; rather it's just a red-colored green apple. You're arguing semantics.

[Lance Omikron]

Lorewise, undead priests DO NOT use holy spells. They use a form of shadow magic to heal.

Actually the sticking point isn't whether or not the forsaken's healing magic is holy (which it is), but whether or not they call upon the specific force known as The Holy Light (which they don't). The light isn't the only thing that's holy.

[stillnotking]

Need I remind everyone that the Forsaken wish to destroy all living things. On a side note, this is why undead hunters are retarded.

Not actually true. Only the "bad" Forsaken (the ones who attempted a coup against Sylvanas) want to destroy all living things. Most of them just want to destroy the Scourge.

Then everyone talks about the undead crusader guy at lights hope chapel. I don't think he's affiliated with any factions except the Argent Dawn/Crusade. He's defending a chapel. He's spending his after-life defending a chapel. Don't try and label him as evil.

But that's the whole point: that not everyone who is undead is automatically evil. The Scourge are evil, because the Scourge are mindless slaves of the Lich King (well, ostensibly mindless; in actual fact they very often have obvious personalities).

[tauromania]

HOLY nova
HOLY fire
SMITE (reference to other mytical holy powers where smiting was done by priests & monks & paladins as a melee attack using that inflicts dmg based on holy magic)

Also I love how when I'm disc and get kicked/counterspelled out of my holy spells that I can heal using shadow magic with my UD priest....

U know, light isn't the only holy thing....and u know, actually sp can use shadow damage to heal themselves....it's called specialization....

[Frozenhour]

light=life
forsaken=death

Or maybe they just dont wanna swarm the horde with UD lolrets.

instead they want taurens paladins to swarm it

[Senbo]

although taking another perspective from DnD there was such a thing as fallen paladin ( dark pallys i think they were called) who turned their backs to the light in favor for using dark magic. so that in mind i dnt see why Undead cant have dark pallys who use the same form of "the light" that the forsaken priests can use. to me it can make sense.

they do have fallen pallies, they were called Death knights if you dont remember how arthas turned. as for the people talking about the scarlet crusade, you guys are idiots dont you remember that the scarlet crusade was brainwashed by a Dreadlord. at first they were a pure force for good, but one of the dread lords ( cant remember which atm ) decided to use them to fight arthas when he turned on the burning legion. also another point on fallen palladins, Alexandros Morgrain (my fav person from lore) he was killed and turned to a death knight.

and besides i find that the tauren palladins make alot more since because they actually believe in a form of the light in a more shamanistic sense. their own religion has some interconnections with the Night Elves worship of elune.

[exdeath202]

If UD paladins were announced for Cataclysm no one would mention the "ligth wont obey undead". Sincerelly, the ligth obeid the fel corrupted Belfs first by force and then as a gift of the naaru in from the sunwell. Undead could be gifted from the naaru, or the belfs could share the sunwell with them or wathever excuse they want to come, zeliek can use ligth as a dk because of the strong faith he had.
Also there is a questline about a paladin who is plagued and you tell the naarus and they save him but he got the plague anyways so they dont look inmune. Also in the same way they use the forgotten shadow to cast ligth-like magic wich isnt ligth really,the concept of a paladin using forgotten shadow looks really interesting. http://www.wowwiki.com/Forgotten_Shadow

Also the forsaken want to remove the scourge and they can enter places and holy grounds the scourge cant.

[Senbo]

If UD paladins were announced for Cataclysm no one would mention the "ligth wont obey undead". Sincerelly, the ligth obeid the fel corrupted Belfs first by force and then as a gift of the naaru in from the sunwell. Undead could be gifted from the naaru, or the belfs could share the sunwell with them or wathever excuse they want to come, zeliek can use ligth as a dk because of the strong faith he had.
Also there is a questline about a paladin who is plagued and you tell the naarus and they save him but he got the plague anyways so they dont look inmune. Also in the same way they use the forgotten shadow to cast ligth-like magic wich isnt ligth really,the concept of a paladin using forgotten shadow looks really interesting. http://www.wowwiki.com/Forgotten_Shadow

Also the forsaken want to remove the scourge and they can enter places and holy grounds the scourge cant.

only problem with this is the blood elfs werent corrupted by fel energies on the horde, it was only when Kel'thas allied with Kil'Jaden (fyi the Wreched) . also Zeliek is the ONLY exception maybe if they had more then one who could use holy then it would be more acceptable but the majority cant.

[Pisholina]

It is a bit, isn't it?

UNDEAD PALADIN: Perish, Anub'arak, and your minions with you!

<clicks Holy Wrath>

SMALL PILE OF DUST: ... fuck.

i lol'd.

And isnt sir zeliek a priest? He uses holy fire u know....

[Captain Noctus]

Not actually true. Only the "bad" Forsaken (the ones who attempted a coup against Sylvanas) want to destroy all living things. Most of them just want to destroy the Scourge.

never been proven, or disproven, that Sylvanas had no part in the Wrathgate even. She got what she wanted from it, her new plague tested, Varim-howeverupsellit dead. ect ect. They joined the Horde for convieniance, they plan to betray every1... read the wiki

If UD paladins were announced for Cataclysm no one would mention the "ligth wont obey undead". Sincerelly, the ligth obeid the fel corrupted Belfs first by force and then as a gift of the naaru in from the sunwell. Undead could be gifted from the naaru, or the belfs could share the sunwell with them or wathever excuse they want to come, zeliek can use ligth as a dk because of the strong faith he had.
Also there is a questline about a paladin who is plagued and you tell the naarus and they save him but he got the plague anyways so they dont look inmune. Also in the same way they use the forgotten shadow to cast ligth-like magic wich isnt ligth really,the concept of a paladin using forgotten shadow looks really interesting. http://www.wowwiki.com/Forgotten_Shadow

They blood elves werent corrupterd by fel energies.. and they _technically_ didnt steal the light from the Naruu, ant the end of SWP you learn that it was all part of Adal's plan to save the bloodelfs from corruption. But you see, they cant save the Forsaken, they are too far gone, and the particular Pague of Undeath they are "afflicted" with, cuts of the light. And the plague you encounter in IC, were you need to saave the crusader? ya, read the Quest texts more carefully, its not the same plauge than before, the Lich King has grown more powerful, and so has his plauges.

[Niroshi]

There are exceptions to everything, I think that should be the first thing established in the discussion regarding Forsaken and Paladins. Zeliek is an undead former Paladin that is now a Death Knight, who is still able to call upon the Light. That doesn't mean that it would be easy, or that there should be a character class for that, since it's noted that Zeliek's ability to use the Light even in undeath is the mark of extreme spirituality. However, considering the Sunwalkers in Cataclysm we've also seen that Paladins don't necessarily need to follow the Holy Light in order to be Paladins. It's possible the Forsaken could adapt the Forgotten Shadow to become Paladins.

The guy who said that each Priest has it's own specific divine force that it calls upon is pretty much on the dot. Night Elves use Elune, the Forsaken use the Forgotten Shadow, Blood Elves, Humans, Draenei and the Dwarves all call on the Light. It seems as though Blizzard in BC tried to make the Naaru = the Light's Jesus, so I suppose while the avenues to the Light are different for the Draenei (and possibly Blood Elves), the last 4 arrive at the same destination.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

as far as i've understood, naruuu are living beings made of pure light energy.
BE were allowed to use light because naruu know that with time they will become true paladins (if u remember tbc at the start be used light thank's to muruu that was binded in silvermoon)
NE use the power of Elune to heal
Dwarf, Humans & Draenei use the light.
Trolls use the power of Loa.
Forsaken use the power of shadow both to damage or to heal (if u notice most of priest's healing spells are called "Heal" Greater Heal" "Binding heal", so there is no referrence to the light, except for Holy Nova that was an human racial spell).

If u also notice the only races that have the paladin class are the same that can use the light. And also if you notice pala offensive and healing spells are something like "DIVINE Storm" "HOLY Light" "Flash of LIGHT".

And in cataclysm we will get Taurens. wheres the lore there? o great one.

[Wunderbarr]

Correct me if im wrong im not really in sync with much of the lore, tho id like to be. But dont draenei get their powers from the naruu?

The Naaru give them their powers, yes, but you forget that the Naaru ARE the light. They are beings of pure light, similar to angels in some of our religions.
Blood Elves shouldn't be considered as being of the light. Technically, they use the same Naaru-light as Draenie, but whereas Draenie are willingly GIVEN their light, Blood Elves steal it.
Draenie are more devoted to the light than any other race. Their whole culture revolves around it.

As for undead, I think it only makes sense that they could start stealing light from a Naaru much like the Blood Elves do. That, or they could use the Forgotten Shadow for pally powers, as Tauren are an example that you don't need to get the powers from the light. Tauren get theirs from a sun-god, the same place as they get their priest powers; this means Paladins can also come from whatever source of holy power priests come from. Hence, undead Paladins. Sadly, it won't happen.

[darkriver41]

never been proven, or disproven, that Sylvanas had no part in the Wrathgate even. She got what she wanted from it, her new plague tested, Varim-howeverupsellit dead. ect ect. They joined the Horde for convieniance, they plan to betray every1... read the wiki

I find it laughable how everyone keeps saying this. The Wrathgate was supposed to be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_development"]CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT[/url] for the Forsaken and Sylvanas... it was supposed to show their improved ties with the Horde, hence Sylvanas saying there and in every future occurence including the Frozen Halls dungeons things praising the Horde and not just the Forsaken. THE FORSAKEN ARE NOT EVIL AND WERE NEVER SUPPOSED TO BE. They are just dark and somewhat detached. There is a difference.

Furthermore, the reason why Forsaken can't be Paladins was thrown out the window when they decided Forsaken could be Priests. The Light and the Shadow react violently with each other, and the Forsaken are bound to life by Shadow magic. But apparently there's some way around it that was discovered as of World of WarCraft.

[Deleted]

To the people saying playable Blood Elves weren't involved with Fel Magic and it was only Kael'thas' sect, there's only one really noticeable difference between High Elves and Blood Elves in looks, eye colour, and to quote Wowwiki:

This reliance on fel magic causes the eyes of blood elves to glow green with demonic fire

That may be in the past now as Blood Elves have reclaimed the Sunwell, but the point remains, Blood Elves were actively siphoning Fel Magic to feed their addiction at the same time they were swinging around the Holy Light.

[Sesto]

And in cataclysm we will get Taurens. wheres the lore there? o great one.

They get their power from their sun god. Next.

[Izenhart]

If I recall, the Priests of the Forsaken call on a different kind of magic to heal things (Forgotten Shadow I think?). I don't think they're able to utilize the actual holy magics used by Paladins.

Yes, they....we, have a cult called The Forgotten Shadow wich is basically like the religion humans have, so we are allowed to be priests.
Here it is;

The Forgotten Shadow is a corrupted reinterpretation of the beliefs and traditions practiced by the Holy Light, and is the religion of the Forsaken.

When the Paladins rely both on Holy Light (the human religion) and on fighting just like a warrior.
Undead wouldn't be able to use the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow "Mixed" with warrior skills to become paladins, that's just it.

[Deleted]

There's a thread of this in pally forums where some kid who's completely unaware of the class philosophy and lore is anxious to get undead paladins. I don't bother to type it all again so I copy some of my own thoughts:

---

You are now forgetting that priests don't necessarily use "light" the way paladins do. Priests and paladins are two different things. As someone pointed out, priests are just regular religious figures who use whatever power their religion provides them with.

One of the key words here is faith. To be able to use the Light offensively in intense physical combat as effectively as they can, a paladin's faith in the justification of his cause must go way beyond that of most priests. Compared to paladins priesthood is more like a profession. Priests can take the easy way and rely on dark shadow magic when needed, but to be a true champion of truth and justice a paladin's faith must be so strong that it excludes the use of any dark abilities. And being a champion of light is something that the Forsaken can not do as long as their aims are what they are.

Attempting to destroy all life is certainly not a good goal. What logically follows is that no paladin can ever willingly serve the Forsaken, except under some mind controlling spell, or indirectly and unknowingly through a third party, or when otherwise forced to do so under very special and temporary circumstances to prevent an even bigger evil from happening. Offering aid to evil would be against the paladin's faith, the source of all of his powers. The Forsaken most definitely know what their race is up to, which strictly rules them out of the paladin community.

The only possibility to have undead paladins would be a separate group of undead who would completely reject and turn their backs to the Forsaken, Sylvanas and the Apothecary Society and their twisted goals and start forging an honorable destiny of their own, perhaps in the ranks of the Argent Dawn or some similar organization. An entirely new faction should be created in the game - like the honorable High Elves vs. the corrupted Blood Elves.

[Huurka]

OH NO IM LOW ON HP GONNA DO SOME FLASH OF LIGHT!

OH GOD!!! NOOOOooo....