Cooldowns

[Dflow]

Ive seen alot of different ways people are using cds in these threads, and i cant seem to find a solid answer to which way is most beneficial.

I personally like to open with a 1pt snd get 5 points pop ks, pop 5pt snd after that and blow ar, bf, and trinket because i might be lucky and get to use them again. (This is providing there is no burn phase that i need to save them for)

I've heard of people waiting for trinket proc to use ks, which i think makes sense if your lucky, otherwise your waiting up to 45 seconds when you could have used ks and almost had it back up again.

I've also heard of Bf, Killing spree which im unsure of. Does the haste you get from bf/snd affect killing spree?

Anyways, id just like to know how you use your cooldowns, and see how we compare.

[Eyetotem]

I like to go in and get a 2 point SnD up then blow AR. After that is I blow KS & BF at the same time. The reason why I do that is you continue to attack as you are KSing, BF increases haste and KS increases damage so the compliment each other.

If I know we are going to BL soon I will try and save AR for that although I have to try hard not to cap energy during it at times. I see nothing wrong with popping your BF and KS during BL to get those extra attacks there.

I think it is all about preference and timing of having the right CDs up. I think you screw up if you end up waiting 30 sec - 1 min before popping CDs because it might be that if you would have gone a head and blown them they may have come back up.

A lot of times I will ask the RL before the pull when we are planning on blowing BL so I can try and make sure I have something up for it.

[Lugo Moll]

Since KS and BF benefit eachother, it's a good idea to use them together (haste and 20% extra damage). AR, on the other hand doesnt benefit from the BF haste, it can be used after the first two.

I usually start with getting slice and dice up, empty my energy bar and pop blade flurry (and racial). Now I usually have all my procs up and I use Killing spree.

I then empty out my energy bar again, possibly doing a finisher if I reach 5 pts. Then I pop Adrenaline Rush.

It's always better to wait with AR until your energy is low, rather than using it asap, since getting energy capped is a huge waste.

[ant1pathy]

As I said in my guide, unless you are waiting for a specific burn phase or know exactly when BL/Hero is going to be used, blow them as fast and as often as possible.

[kildal]

Personally i've been doing it wrong :P First using my haste potion (pre combat) Using 2 SS for 2-4 pts snd then popping ar+bf (i thought they worked good with eachother and that ks+bf was a waste) at the end of ar+bf i have almost always had 2xberserker and sometimes both trinkets (grimtoll+mirror of truth) making my killing spree do a fair ammount of dammage usually putting me at 6-10k dps dependant on fight (my gear is from ulduar as i've not cared to raid toc tho) then having bf+haste potion ready for heroism.

My rotation has been a bit thight too, dunno if i'm doing it right =/

The main question i got would be how to use s&d. At this point what i do is first 2-4pts SnD then waiting till it's at less than one seccond renewing it with 3 or sometimes 4 points (if thight i sometimes use a 1 or 2point SnD barely happens tho) This is because when i started as combat i just read that i should use 3pt SnD finishers, just wondering if this is the most benefital or if using 5 points SnD finishers is better when getting into the rotation

A bit off topic, but would like some pointers here instead of making a new "omg my dps sucks" thread lol :P

Edit: another reason i like it as i do it now with 3pt SnD finishers is that i when pushing dps i can use 5 point evis at maybe 4 secconds left on snd (i know i will get at least one point SnD at this point and capping energy to wait for using SnD with 5points would be a loss) the best case is i get finisher proc on evis getting me a point and most likely a energy regain. if i then crit on sinister strike i get 3 points and can continue my rotation and top tha meters

[Jenton]

Personally i've been doing it wrong :P First using my haste potion (pre combat) Using 2 SS for 2-4 pts snd then popping ar+bf (i thought they worked good with eachother and that ks+bf was a waste) at the end of ar+bf i have almost always had 2xberserker and sometimes both trinkets (grimtoll+mirror of truth) making my killing spree do a fair ammount of dammage usually putting me at 6-10k dps dependant on fight (my gear is from ulduar as i've not cared to raid toc tho) then having bf+haste potion ready for heroism.

My rotation has been a bit thight too, dunno if i'm doing it right =/

The main question i got would be how to use s&d. At this point what i do is first 2-4pts SnD then waiting till it's at less than one seccond renewing it with 3 or sometimes 4 points (if thight i sometimes use a 1 or 2point SnD barely happens tho) This is because when i started as combat i just read that i should use 3pt SnD finishers, just wondering if this is the most benefital or if using 5 points SnD finishers is better when getting into the rotation

A bit off topic, but would like some pointers here instead of making a new "omg my dps sucks" thread lol :P

Edit: another reason i like it as i do it now with 3pt SnD finishers is that i when pushing dps i can use 5 point evis at maybe 4 secconds left on snd (i know i will get at least one point SnD at this point and capping energy to wait for using SnD with 5points would be a loss) the best case is i get finisher proc on evis getting me a point and most likely a energy regain. if i then crit on sinister strike i get 3 points and can continue my rotation and top tha meters

You generally want to use 5 point finishers, including slice and dice. The rotation stability combined with the energy loss with 5/5 relentless strikes using a <5 point SnD is such that you come out ahead waiting for 3 seconds or so to use a 5 pointer instead of a 3 point/4 point.

[Lugo Moll]

You generally want to use 5 point finishers, including slice and dice. The rotation stability combined with the energy loss with 5/5 relentless strikes using a <5 point SnD is such that you come out ahead waiting for 3 seconds or so to use a 5 pointer instead of a 3 point/4 point.

Theorycrafting I've seen on EJ suggests that it's more important to refresh slice and dice as late as possible than to do it with 5 points.

So if you, at a given moment, got 5 combo points and 8 secs left of SnD, it's better to do eviscerate than to refresh SnD, even if this means you will only have 2-3 points for SnD when it's about to fall off.

So basicly, you always use SnD when there's a certain amount of time remaining (usually 3-4 sec) no matter the amount of combo points you happen to have. This requires a lot of energy pooling, of course.

I think this strategy mainly applies to ruptureless cycles, though.

[Ganoes]

Don't use AR and KS together.
Do use BF and KS together.
Do use AR and BF together.

[Lugo Moll]

Do use AR and BF together.

Why?

[Ganoes]

Why?

More than one mob like Valkyr twins and it's pretty obvious why.
For a single target boss, BF still provides 10% haste which works decently with AR.
Of course, if you choose to use KS + BF together for a multimob group, don't use AR.

[Annoying]

More than one mob like Valkyr twins and it's pretty obvious why.
For a single target boss, BF still provides 10% haste which works decently with AR.
Of course, if you choose to use KS + BF together for a multimob group, don't use AR.

10% haste interacts with AR in absolutely no way. More haste and 2x energy regen have nothing in common. Though the twins line is accurate.

The answer is easily:
AR+BF = 2+ Targets (i.e. twins, H-Anub adds)
BF+KS = 1 Target
AR+KS = Never.

Always use BF first when using with AR, it helps keep you from capping out.

[wolfwood888]

Since blood lust doesn't effcet the GCD, then there is no reason to blow AR with it, unless you also have AP tirnkets to blow with it, same goes for BF.

[blargh312]

Since blood lust doesn't effcet the GCD, then there is no reason to blow AR with it, unless you also have AP tirnkets to blow with it, same goes for BF.

Yeah, too bad BL actually does affect the GCD...

[glace]

Just read everything Moll said and ignore the rest. True, relentless strikes might not proc with less than 5 combo points, but ruthlessness is combo point impartial. This is especially true with 18/51/2 builds.

[Tamberlon]

When you use BF and AR at the same time(2 targets), what i like to do is burn my energy bar to a 4cp snd,pop AR first,then BF. This gives me enough enery and combopoints to deliver a 2x5cp eviscerate on the targets,ending it with a KS where BF still have around 4sec left.

[Annoying]

Yeah, too bad BL actually does affect the GCD...

Rogues already have a 1s GCD which doesn't get any faster with haste.

[Ganoes]

AR+BF = 2 Targets (i.e. twins, H-Anub adds)
BF+KS = 3+ Targets (i.e. trash mobs, large groups of adds in a boss fight such as Razorscale, etc.)

fix't

[elapadrinar]

First off, BF is 20% haste not 10%

Since blood lust doesn't effcet the GCD, then there is no reason ..... same goes for BF.

stacking BF + haste pot + BL/hero is a good idea since the more haste you have the better it scales.