Destro -> Demo

[ZzXK]

I've played Destro for about half a year now and I looking for a change. I was thinking affliction for a little while but I already PvP Aff so I took a look at Demo. I noticed that just about every lock on my server raids destro; I thought to myself "Why not try Demonology?". I made a spec and tryed it out. This is how far I've gotten.

My Armory:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...e+Co&n=Dragden

(WoW-Heores.com Has my data cached if I'm logged in pvp spec/gear)

My spec+ glyphs:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IcZ0G...bcgkAoE00V:roT

Rotation:
Curse (Situation dependant) -> Shadowbolt spam = 4k dps (800ish from pet) CoE was on targ dummy.

Main Questions:
-What should I use SB or Incin?
-When I use SB it is really mana intensive should it be like that?
-I spec'd for ISB if I use Incin I'd have to use a glyph for the 5% Inc damage and no crit debuff is it worth it?
-I noticed using Corruption and Immolate in my rotation it represents 18% of my damage but I still pull as much as a shadowbolt spam. Is using the two DoTs worth it or just more work?
-What are the more popular rotations?

[Donniebrasco]

The priority I use is Immo> Corr> Curse> Sb Filler

I average 5.5k dps in 25 ToC.

My gear:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Donniebrasco

[Jobusan]

Demonology is decent enough. It's not terrible, but obviously not the highest dps spec. My understanding is that demonology mostly plays a raid support role at this time, but will have a bit more of a predominate dps measure come 3.3. It still won't be highest for dps, but the information shows that is also won't be complete shit either.

[ZzXK]

Demonology is decent enough. It's not terrible, but obviously not the highest dps spec. My understanding is that demonology mostly plays a raid support role at this time, but will have a bit more of a predominate dps measure come 3.3. It still won't be highest for dps, but the information shows that is also won't be complete shit either.

Yeah I know what you mean. Another one of the reasons I went demo is to help support ToC H25s

[BartolGdH]

Demonology is way more fun than Destro, if you don't want to be bored to death, that's for sure

Main Questions:
-What should I use SB or Incin?
-When I use SB it is really mana intensive should it be like that?
-I spec'd for ISB if I use Incin I'd have to use a glyph for the 5% Inc damage and no crit debuff is it worth it?
-I noticed using Corruption and Immolate in my rotation it represents 18% of my damage but I still pull as much as a shadowbolt spam. Is using the two DoTs worth it or just more work?
-What are the more popular rotations?

1. You use Shadowbolt, because Incinerate deals less damage at the same cast time (no 'Emberstorm'), even with Immolate on the target.
2. No, it's not worth it. The glyph won't propably be worth it even with the changes to Molten Core in 3.3. So, "no way, Jose".
3. It is more work but totally worth it. If you are hitting the same numbers with only shadowbolt spam, I'm curious why that is the case. Maybe provide some Recount-/world-of-logs-/whatever-Info on that (if Recount, please Screenshot the Detail section as well). It would surprise me if Shadowbolt-Spam dealt the same amount of damage without your DoTs as with them...
4. The rotation I always use is: (with Spell Stone, btw)

Shadowbolt (Demonic Empowerment is macroed to pop with Shadowbolt as well, so I don't have to worry about that) > Metamorphosis (> Immolation Aura - if I can go near the boss) > Curse (CoD most likely) > Immolate > Corruption > Shadowbolt Spam > refresh DoTs when need be





And now a bit more detail:

Replace the 'Glyph of Shadowbolt' with the 'Glyph of Metamorphosis'. In raids you have enough mana (as you have to lifetap every 40 seconds at least anyway), so the glyph is...I don't want to say useless, but, let's just say there are better ones.

If you're sure about having a Draenei in your group and a Moonkin/Shadowpriest in you raid every time, you could take two points out of 'Suppression' and put them in 1/1 'Demonic Empowerment' and 2/3 (now 1/3) 'Improved Demonic Tactics'. The disadvantage being that if don't have a Moonkin/Shadowpriest with you, you'll have to swap a trinket or something to get the hit, and if you get a new piece of equip, you might have to change the specc a little (if there are any differences in Hit there). So it's really not a major thing.

Your itemization and gemming looks fine, but I'd get 4/5 T9 as soon as possible, since the bonus is good for both immolate and corruption.

I personally hit way higher numbers with Corruption and Immolate on the target than without, so there must be something funny there. Maybe you clip the DoTs or don't refresh them "properly"? Or you just had insane crit luck?

Try your dps on a boss dummy without any debuffs on it (so no CoE) and post it in the "Fix my DPS" thread in this forum to get it reviewed

[Bakis]

too bad that demo got the rotation of a hunter, real challenging.. not saying destro has many more keys just sad that the most superboring lock spec of them all seem to be the winnerspec in ICC since no raid with any ambition will pick more than one lock ;o

[Jobusan]

Everyone keeps saying how boring it is....let's clarify something here. It's boring for you and that your opinion. I love destro. I could give a shit about the rotation frankly...i just like playing it for the big crits personally. That and I don't overthink anything anymore. Call me a simpleton, but I really can't stand when people make the complexity of a class so generic that it must influence everyone. Play what you enjoy, if destro is boring to you fine, move on to something you like, but also keep in mind...you don't know if you like it till you try it. And if you don't like it, that doesn't mean someone else won't.

[BartolGdH]

Demonology is way more fun than Destro, if you don't want to be bored to death, that's for sure

I didn't mean to offend anyone. If I did, I am sorry; it was not intended.
This just reflects my own experience with both specs and my personal opinion formed by said experience.

Play what you enjoy, if destro is boring to you fine, move on to something you like, but also keep in mind...you don't know if you like it till you try it. And if you don't like it, that doesn't mean someone else won't.

I totally agree with you. Sorry if my post gave another impression...

too bad that demo got the rotation of a hunter, real challenging.. not saying destro has many more keys just sad that the most superboring lock spec of them all seem to be the winnerspec in ICC since no raid with any ambition will pick more than one lock ;o

First: I don't play a hunter, so I don't care if it feels the same
Second: There is more than one hunter spec as there is more than one spec of any class. And the rotations differ with different specs even as a hunter, as I'm told. So generalizing it to "rotation of a hunter" is the same as someone opening a topic on "what rota as a warlock" without saying what spec he/she is looking for etc.

I personally think (again, personally; opinions can and should differ) that destro is more boring than demo, because you only have to watch two DoTs at the most (Immolate and CoD/CoA), press two different keys every 10 or 12 seconds, fill up with one spell, and lifetap every once in a while. You don't care about trinket procs/uses, heroism/bloodlust, execute time or anything (concerning altering your rotation and stuff; of course you care about trinkets and Hero/BL because they mean more dps, but they won't alter your rotation, will they?).

As a demo you watch three DoTs at the most (Immolate, Corruption, and CoD/CoA), press one key (I admit, one's less than two ) every 38 seconds (or macro it to any spell) and fill the whole thing up with one spell as well, while lifetapping every so often.
The things you have to consider as Demo additionally are when to pop Meta, if you can afford it to go near the target to use immolation aura, when to use your trinkets (if they, for example, give you haste you might want to pop them during Meta), to have Meta ready for Heroism/Bloodlust (although two times Meta without Hero/BL should be more dmg than one Meta with Hero/BL, I think), and to weave in Soulfire when the boss is below 35% of his health.
With more things to consider come 3.3 (changed Molten Core).

((I left out Affliction as it was not mentioned in your post.))


P.S.: I, again, didn't mean to insult anyone. The post reflects my opinion strengthened by (hopefully convincing) arguments.
As always, if something is wrong: Although I am a gnome, I am not perfect. Feel free to correct me.

[Screwtape]

I didn't mean to offend anyone. If I did, I am sorry; it was not intended.
This just reflects my own experience with both specs and my personal opinion formed by said experience.

I totally agree with you. Sorry if my post gave another impression...

First: I don't play a hunter, so I don't care if it feels the same
Second: There is more than one hunter spec as there is more than one spec of any class. And the rotations differ with different specs even as a hunter, as I'm told. So generalizing it to "rotation of a hunter" is the same as someone opening a topic on "what rota as a warlock" without saying what spec he/she is looking for etc.

I personally think (again, personally; opinions can and should differ) that destro is more boring than demo, because you only have to watch two DoTs at the most (Immolate and CoD/CoA), press two different keys every 10 or 12 seconds, fill up with one spell, and lifetap every once in a while. You don't care about trinket procs/uses, heroism/bloodlust, execute time or anything (concerning altering your rotation and stuff; of course you care about trinkets and Hero/BL because they mean more dps, but they won't alter your rotation, will they?).

As a demo you watch three DoTs at the most (Immolate, Corruption, and CoD/CoA), press one key (I admit, one's less than two ) every 38 seconds (or macro it to any spell) and fill the whole thing up with one spell as well, while lifetapping every so often.
The things you have to consider as Demo additionally are when to pop Meta, if you can afford it to go near the target to use immolation aura, when to use your trinkets (if they, for example, give you haste you might want to pop them during Meta), to have Meta ready for Heroism/Bloodlust (although two times Meta without Hero/BL should be more dmg than one Meta with Hero/BL, I think), and to weave in Soulfire when the boss is below 35% of his health.
With more things to consider come 3.3 (changed Molten Core).

((I left out Affliction as it was not mentioned in your post.))


P.S.: I, again, didn't mean to insult anyone. The post reflects my opinion strengthened by (hopefully convincing) arguments.
As always, if something is wrong: Although I am a gnome, I am not perfect. Feel free to correct me.

I stopped reading after "I am a gnome".

GDI.

[gherkin]

I stopped reading after "I am a gnome".

GDI.

... there were 9 words left to read.

[Figoment]

you have 11.97% hit from gear +1% draenei +3% boomkin/spriest take 2 points out of supression and put them in Demonic empowerment(It's off the GCD so it's a pure dps increase) and put the last point in either Molten core or master summoner. Also use glyph of meta instead of shadowbolt

[HavocLock]

... there were 9 words left to read.

Let's not over-exert ourselves. Whew, time for a break. brb

[ZzXK]

you have 11.97% hit from gear +1% draenei +3% boomkin/spriest take 2 points out of supression and put them in Demonic empowerment(It's off the GCD so it's a pure dps increase) and put the last point in either Molten core or master summoner. Also use glyph of meta instead of shadowbolt

I was thinking that but im looking forward to some haste boots dropping so i can drop a bit of my hit rating

By the way everyone thanks for the help I think i'm gettin the hang of this spec =)
4.5k on Ntrend beasts Regular
5k+ Ntrend Beasts Heroic so far

[BartolGdH]

After being provided with the theoretical part (requirements, basics, rotation etc), you just need practice. You'll get better in your accomodating to the specc, and you'll see the results soon. Even if you're probably not going to see your lock on the #1 spot of recount (or whatever you use).

That reminds me of something:

I was soooo happy when I hit number 1 (of 25) in TotC this evening as Demo. Normally I'm #3 - that high because we only have 5-6 really good dps players in our raid (who cares, as long as we don't do too much hardmode stuff; fun > everything else) - but one of them was having a bad day (mage) and our DK had to tank one fight.
I'm realistic and know, that I would probably not have beaten those two otherwise (and I don't blame it on their slightly better gear - really just a little bit), but it was nice to see me being "the dude" as it will not likely happen too often.

Unfortunately, I forgot to get the whole thing saved in a combatlog-thingy. Why today of all days? *sniff*


Sorry for not really being on topic (well, at least it's about demo locks, right?).

Good luck for you with the specc in the future!

[Galith]

I was soooo happy when I hit number 1 (of 25) in TotC this evening as Demo. Normally I'm #3

You shouldn't be top 3 in a 25 man raid as Demo, sorry.

[Lilixer]

35% is when demo gets fucking fun.

SB SF SB SB SF SB SF SB SB SF(keeping CoA up for Molten Core)

Love seeing 20k soulfires + every few seconds. Its wonderful

[BartolGdH]

You shouldn't be top 3 in a 25 man raid as Demo, sorry.

I know, that's why there's punctuation :P

The sentence wasn't finished, so wasn't my "point".

I was soooo happy when I hit number 1 (of 25) in TotC this evening as Demo. Normally I'm #3 - that high because we only have 5-6 really good dps players in our raid [...]

And of 5-6 you will agree that number 3 is not too improbable to achieve, even as Demo. Everyone has a bad day once in a while.

And I might be number 7 in a particular raid, but taken from like the last 2 1/2 monts of raiding rank 3 is something like my "that's where I expect me to be normally".


I hope this clears things up.


Aaaaaand now, if there are no further questions, let's get back to the (main) topic here